Duskblade/Beguiler Gestalt 3.5?

[Etrogann]

My DM is trying a play-by-post game. We are running 3.5 all splatbooks that are not setting based (Forgotten Relms, ETC.) we are starting at 4th level, +1 LA Races and templates only count for one side of the Gestalt level, and I think that is the default house rules that apply to creation.
So we have a Pirate(swashbuckler)/Ninja, a Gnome Druid/Cleric, and a Fighter/Knight. I was thinking of blaster, but we are running a (almost) never ending dungeon setting. I was thinking of making my guy almost self sufficient. Caster/Factotum maybe, but I thought Duskblade(Fighter/Mage) and Beguiler (Mage/Thief) might be a cool combo. Any ideas? I want this as optimized as possible without 1 level dips and such (DM hates those).
As far as Races, I was thinking of Tiefling/ Dragon Descended for the Darkvision/Lowlight vision and the +4 that gives me to Int. But I will take ideas on that as well.
Thanks alot for your input guys and gals.

[Greenish]

Factotum//Warblade is pretty sweet deal, but Beguiler//Warblade could be amusing too. Duskblade//Warblade could wreak pretty sweet havoc (if you can channel with maneuvers, which I'm not sure will work).

Hmm, how about ditching the silly casters and other nerdish int based classes for a good ol' barbarian//totemist?

[LichPrinceAlim]

Factotum//Warblade is pretty sweet deal, but Beguiler//Warblade could be amusing too. Duskblade//Warblade could wreak pretty sweet havoc (if you can channel with maneuvers, which I'm not sure will work).

Hmm, how about ditching the silly casters and other nerdish int based classes for a good ol' barbarian//totemist?

Nonononono......

The best Gestalt Combos using incarnum are Crusader//Incarnate and Incarnate//Monk

[Eloel]

Nonononono......

The best Gestalt Combos using incarnum are Crusader//Incarnate and Incarnate//Monk

Nonono, You're Doing It Wrong (tm)

Monk//Samurai or Monk//Truenamer or Samurai//Truenamer

Really.

[Greenish]

Nonononono......

The best Gestalt Combos using incarnum are Crusader//Incarnate and Incarnate//Monk

You would have a positive charisma modifier?

'tis Heresy, I say!

[LichPrinceAlim]

I say the most memorable Gestalt combos I ever ran was:

1. Elan Conjurer/Malconvoker//Shaper/Ectopic Adept
2. Vashara Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard/Ordianed Champion//Knight/Cavalier(remodled for evil)
3. Pherenic Grey Elf Wizard/Archmage//Psion/Arch Psion

[Gnaeus]

The only bad thing with Duskblade//Beguiler is that beguiler doesn't give you any tasty touch spells to use with your spell channeling ability. It is a good combo (way better than most of the ones you listed in your game) because it covers your weaknesses and has INT synergy, but not a great one because your class abilities do not work together (well, beguiler does get some buffs, but no good touch attacks) and you can only break action economy with the handful of duskblade spells that are swift.

Factotum works well with almost anything in gestalt, as do Tome of Battle classes, because you can pick abilities that are swift actions or let you take extra actions.

For duskblade, wizard may be better than Beguiler, because at level 3 (for example) you can be channeling second level touch spells through your reach weapon. Your party seems to lack a wizard. You can use duskblade to cover banned schools (like abjuration, necromancy, or evocation) to allow you to specialize with few drawbacks. If you have the stats to pull off a MAD character, Duskblade//Dread Necro requires int and cha but has a lot of synergy, with tons of touch attacks and some nice DR, and your familiar will enjoy the high HP and BAB of the duskblade.

Another option might be Duskblade//Archivist. Make a deal with the cleric//druid to let you scribe all the spells you want, and you could be a powerhouse.

[Etrogann]

If you have the stats to pull off a MAD character

I forgot to mention we are on a 38 point buy
Also, being in a dungeon crawl, I would like to have a little of everything. So factotum may be the way to go, I have never played one however. So if I went Factotum/duskblade what races would be good? I can take up to +2 LA and still have 3 gestalt levels to play with.

[LichPrinceAlim]

I forgot to mention we are on a 38 point buy

Then I HIGHLY suggest the almighty combination of:

Pseudonatural Half-Hex Dragon Half-Illithid 8/Thrallherd 10/Mindbender 2//Egoist 20

All Hail Lil' Kthulhu!!!

[gorfnab]

I forgot to mention we are on a 38 point buy
Also, being in a dungeon crawl, I would like to have a little of everything. So factotum may be the way to go, I have never played one however. So if I went Factotum/duskblade what races would be good? I can take up to +2 LA and still have 3 gestalt levels to play with.

Shadow Template +2 LA from Lords of Madness is awesome. It gives you darkvision, a movement increase, shadow blend and stuff like fast healing and evasion as you level up. It also combos nicely with the Darkstalker feat (also from Lords of Madness). Slap this on a Whisper Gnome from Races of Stone and almost everything you'll face will have an extremely hard time finding you.

[Etrogann]

OK, so I the whole reason I was posting is cause we don't have a caster so I was going to fill that role. But I was hoping to figure out a way to get a sort of Fighter/mage/thief going on. I am thinking now about Whisper Gnome. Factotum and possibly Duskblade. Int synergy, able to do a little of everything. Factotum would help me with touch spells for duskblade. Any one got any tips? Remember, I need to play this character. I am not looking for a 20th level optimized build, I am looking for a build that is fairly solid throughout.
Thanks again for looking here and for all the suggestions so far.

P.S. Evil is not allowed, also I do not have access to the Book of Broken Deeds, Vile Darkness, Madness, or some of those. Mostly just the Races books, Complete books and core.

[Zergrusheddie]

It would work because you could be the Trapfinder and a decent damage dealer. Channeling Overwhelm through a Spiked Chain with the Full Channeling ability would just be brutal with Attacks of Opportunity. Monster runs by you, you hit it, deal some damage, and than Overwhelm knocks it unconscious. The defensive buffs like Greater Mirror Image would help your survival go a long way.

[quiet1mi]

One thing I like about the Above combo vs. Things from the Tome of Battle...

Options... Beguilers are hailed for their options... but in a straight fight, where your opponent knows to have a high will save, truesight (doubt it at level 4), the duskblade begins to shine through.

The way I see the above fighting is sort of a dirty combatant (Read: Guerilla )... using tricks to gain the upperhand (Silent Image, Invisibility, Ventriloquism) While on the ceiling (Spiderclimb) only to charge the enemy with a Shocking grasped attack with power-attack (TO THE MAX!)

MAD appears to be an issue but really isn't and hear is why... contrary to popular belief, beguilers really do not need dex... Hide, Move-silently are replicated with silence and invisibility... Mirror Image helps against High Attack bonuses by reducing them to a pseudo miss chance, combined with blur and you have a 1d4+1 (Right now an average of 3)... meaning that your oponent has only a 25% to hit the real you, while having a 80% chance to avoid your moving outline, and then a slightly higher than 50% (low Dex we will say 60%) to get hit... You could say the effective 12% chance being hit...

One could argue for initiative but with the spiderclimb, silence, invisibility means that you surprise opponents and therefore go first...

While I am not advocating dumping Dexterity, I would say that anything higher than a 14 is really not needed... unless you plan on a dex fighter...

Remember, both of the classes have a lot of swift actions. Beguilers (when well played tactically) soak up your opponent's actions, furthering you in the action economy...

Remember Out-cast what you cannot out-fight, out-fight what you cannot out -cast... And if you are totally outgunned, beguile them into wasting resources until the enemy is in a position where you can out-fight them or out-cast them...

Beguilers have a lot of spell slots, feel free to use them to power out Arcane Strike... an extra +2 to hit and 2d4 damage is pretty good... (especially when it turns into an extra 6 damage from power attack)

PS: forgot that you were level 4... normally I play at level 10 but you can apply the same tricks... just on a lower scale. Silent Image can functions as a darkness spell with a will save attached... and read up on your rights to illusions... All about illusions is great and can be found through google if you search 3.5 archive D&D...

[Harperfan7]

Your party has a skills, combat, and divine magic covered already.

Why not wizard//sorcerer?
If you use a Cansin (the chaotic planetouched), you'll be set.
(Cansin are +2 Int, +2 Cha, Acid/Fire Resistance 5, Entropic Shield as a cleric of their level 1/day, +2 Bluff/Search, Darkvision 60ft., Native Outsiders, Favored Class: Sorcerer, LA +1)

You guys would be the generic party on crack.

[Gnaeus]

Why not wizard//sorcerer?
If you use a Cansin (the chaotic planetouched), you'll be set.
(Cansin are +2 Int, +2 Cha, Acid/Fire Resistance 5, Entropic Shield as a cleric of their level 1/day, +2 Bluff/Search, Darkvision 60ft., Native Outsiders, Favored Class: Sorcerer, LA +1)

Wizard//Sorcerer is a terrible gestalt. Bad HP. Bad Fort save. MAD. Not really better than a straight wizard. This character deserves to eat an AOE or a fort save or die for bad build.

[tcrudisi]

I like the Duskblade/Beguiler ... but those are two of my favorite classes (with Beguiler being my favorite class bar none). Mind you, I'm going off memory, but someone above said that this combo would not break the action economy. You can still do very well. Yeah, you can do the swift spells via Duskblade, but I believe that Beguiler had a few of those as well... I can't remember what they were called, but they would let you do neat stuff like stop an opponents attack in mid-swing and stuff like that. Also, I do like this combo for the versatility.

Is it the best gestalt combo? No. Is it a good one? Yes.

[Pluto]

I'm not seeing the synergy here.

Any turn you use the Beguiler class, you aren't using the Duskblade (until you get Overwhelm(?), anyway. But that means 13 levels without overlap in class abilities)





If you can use Unseen Seer, it would do very well to replace Beguiler.

Rogue 1/Illusionist 4/Unseen Seer X advances its spellcasting at the same rate as the beguiler and has all the same spells and comparable skills. It also has access to better channeled spells and sneak attack progression, which directly improves the character's Duskblade side. Duskblade still, unfortunately, does little to make the character better at Beguiling, but this would make the character both more flexible and more powerful overall.




Again, Factotum would do well to take the place of one or the other:

It gives a bit of utility casting to the Duskblade, as well as gobs of skillpoints and skill bonuses and applications of intelligence to just about everything and extra standard actions.

It directly improves the Beguiler's casting and skill-monkey roles, and it gives all sorts of bonuses with its intelligence and it gives some extra flexibility with its SLA's. (If you aren't particular to the Beguiler's casting mechanic, Illusionist would be a better option for the Beguiler side, in this case. The concept would stay the same, the character would stay the same, but the cruch might be a bit divergent from your original plan.)