Using Binder to enter Ur-Priest?

[Soonerdj]

Hey Playground, I'm currently the DM of a very high powered campaign and in interest of making a formidable enemy with some uh... character to her I'd like to use Binder as an entry to Ur-priest.

At the moment the Binder can get everything except the ranks in spellcraft to enter at level 5. Any way I can get around this barring a one level dip in some class?

Thanks I appreciate it

[DragoonWraith]

Yes.

Spellcraft

• Keeper of Forbidden Lore [Abyssal Heritor] - Fiendish Codex I (also gives Knowledge (The Planes))

[Mongoose87]

I think the apprentice feats from the DMG II would offer that option.

[Ryuuk]

It sounds possibly like a good fit really, I don't know how you can get in quicker, but the Tenebrous Apostate class sounds perfect for it.

[DragoonWraith]

Tenebrous Apostate's kind of (massively) underwhelming, though.

[hiryuu]

Don't forget to take Precocious Apprentice, a wizard level, and Mystic Theurge after Ur-Priest 2 while you're at it.

[JeenLeen]

It's expensive, but you could cross-class 4 skill points to buy it to 2. Get Skill Focus (Spellcraft) for +3 to put it up to 5.

A feat is expensive, but it might be your best bet if you want to avoid a level dip. "Keeper of Forbidden Lore" sounds like a better one, though.

Edit: turns out I was wrong. Thanks, Sinfire Titan.

[Sinfire Titan]

It's expensive, but you could cross-class 4 skill points to buy it to 2. Get Skill Focus (Spellcraft) for +3 to put it up to 5.

A feat is expensive, but it might be your best bet if you want to avoid a level dip. "Keeper of Forbidden Lore" sounds like a better one, though.

That doesn't work. Skill Focus gives a +3 untyped bonus, not 3 Ranks in the skill.

[Soonerdj]

Yeah thanks for the advice that should make this transition much smoother than the junk I was thinking of before.

Anyways one other, sorta relevant question. The Rebuke granted by Tenebrous scales with EBL while the rebuke granted by Ur-Priest is considered the same as the cleric one. Would these stack?

[DragoonWraith]

You could use one or the other, your choice.

Also, binding Tenebrous (which is not optional for an Apostate) qualifies you for the Turn Undead requirement, so you can take Tenebrous Apostate as a single-class Binder (oddly enough). This also means (for you) that you only need one level of Ur-Priest, not two, if you don't want.

Of course, having the daily uses of Turn Undead has its own advantages which may make it worthwhile. I would think that Tenebrous's Turn Undead would not qualify for Divine Feats.

[Pluto]

I really like how Tenebrous Apostate, unlike most divine PrCs, actually works with Ur-Priest's fluff.

*writes note for a future character*

[DragoonWraith]

That much is very true. Binder 5/Ur-Priest 6/Tenebrous Apostate 5 is a very flavorful character that makes a lot of sense.

[Nate the Snake]

Anyways one other, sorta relevant question. The Rebuke granted by Tenebrous scales with EBL while the rebuke granted by Ur-Priest is considered the same as the cleric one. Would these stack?

According to the rules text, ...

If you have the ability to turn of rebuke undead from other classes, your levels in those classes stack with your effective binder level for the purpose of determining your turning ability.

... they would stack.

Of course, having the daily uses of Turn Undead has its own advantages which may make it worthwhile. I would think that Tenebrous's Turn Undead would not qualify for Divine Feats.

Well, divine feats require the ability to turn undead, and Tenebrous gives you the ability to turn undead, so letting a binder use divine feats wouldn't be too much of a stretch. However, a binder only has one use of turn undead at any one time, so using Divine Might every 5 rounds would work, but spending three and a half minutes Persisting a spell with Divine Metamagic wouldn't.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Check out this thread by me and my brother that concernes a several variations on a Binder/Ur-Priest/Nar-Demon Binder I like to call the Blasphemancer.

[url]http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6739.0[/url

you really only need to read the first post all the builds are fully fleshed out there. The first version of the build ends up casting 9th level divine spells, 8th level arcan spells and binding 7th level vestiges.

[gorfnab]

Binder and Ur-Priest do work nicely together. Now throwing in Warlock can make it interesting too. Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3. Not so much on the binding (Naberius offsets the hellfire recoil very nicely) but still very versatile. Although at lower levels taking the feat Improved Binding gives you some more versatility until you go into Hellfire.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

According to the rules text, ...

... they would stack.

for rebuke yes, if neutral for turn, no.

[Runestar]

Binder/ur-priest...consider this npc concept stolen.