Are bracers of armor effectively ghost touch? (3.5)

[Harperfan7]

It says they are made of force...

I'm trying to decide if my 30 dex gish should wear a +5 twilight mithril shirt of nimbleness or bracers of armor +8. If the bracers block incorporeal attacks, its a pretty clear choice.

[Worira]

Yup. They basically act like a permanent Mage Armour, including protection from incorporeal attacks.

EDIT: Also, depending on whether the field lies close against the body or in a sphere/oval around the wearer, they might allow the wearer to make unarmed attacks against incorporeal targets.

[FinalJustice]

If it's a gish, you should definetely wear the Mithril Shirt. Room for enchantment is a good thing. Plus, you can pack a cheap wand of Mage Armor if you are concerned about incorporeal attacks.

Edit: Better, wear a +1 Mithril Shirt of Nimbleness and cast Magic Vestment on it everyday. Save yourself a lot of money to buy nice things such as Soulfire (BoED, permanent Death Ward).

[Greenish]

Just to riff with Worira…

This:

Bracers of Armor
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

And this:

Armor Bonus
An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.

Repetitio mater studiorum est.

[Jack_Simth]

It says they are made of force...

I'm trying to decide if my 30 dex gish should wear a +5 twilight mithril shirt of nimbleness or bracers of armor +8. If the bracers block incorporeal attacks, its a pretty clear choice.

Yep, they do.

The more interesting question, though, is that as Force effects extend to the Ethereal, can a critter on the Ethereal plane use the force effect of the Bracers of Armor to bull-rush you about....

[herrhauptmann]

Also, depending on whether the field lies close against the body or in a sphere/oval around the wearer, they might allow the wearer to make unarmed attacks against incorporeal targets.

They're armor. They don't provide a bonus to attack, or different avenues of attack unless it is stated in the enchantment. And there's precious few defensive enchantments that give a bonus to attack or allow different attack forms.

Edit: Go for a +1 armor and greater magic vestment. Or track down an Abjurant champion, have him craft a wondrous item with abjuration spell that works as if the AC had cast it on himself. (Requires DM ruling, but I think if an AC crafts a wand of shield, it should provide benefits as if he had cast it from a spell slot.)

[Bibliomancer]

Yep, they do.

The more interesting question, though, is that as Force effects extend to the Ethereal, can a critter on the Ethereal plane use the force effect of the Bracers of Armor to bull-rush you about....

No, they wouldn't be able to do that. The material can affect the Ethereal but not vice versa. Force on the Ethereal has no effect on the Material.

[Harperfan7]

I don't know where greater magic vestment comes from.

Magic Vestment is a purely divine spell in the SRD.

My character dumped charisma and has no UMD.

[Jack_Simth]

No, they wouldn't be able to do that. The material can affect the Ethereal but not vice versa. Force on the Ethereal has no effect on the Material.

It's not the Ethereal critter that has the force effect in the scenario in question. It's the material critter that does.

You get something anchored to yourself - Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, whatever - that extends to another plane.

Someone on that other plane then makes an interaction with that thing, anchored to you, that extends to the plane the other person is on.

Does that thing then push back on you?

I mean, I doubt anyone would argue against the Ethereal wizard using Disintegrate on on an Interposing Hand cast by a material wizard leaving the Interposing Hand intact. Why wouldn't a bull-rush attempt on the Bracers field of force also push the wearer?

[Worira]

They're armor. They don't provide a bonus to attack, or different avenues of attack unless it is stated in the enchantment. And there's precious few defensive enchantments that give a bonus to attack or allow different attack forms.

It doesn't get the armour bonus to attack, but if it does lie close to the body, punching something with it ought to have some effect.

[herrhauptmann]

It doesn't get the armour bonus to attack, but if it does lie close to the body, punching something with it ought to have some effect.

You were asking about a defensive item letting you make an offensive move you couldn't normally make. (Punching/kicking a ghost).

Nothing in the rules about that one, except for 'gauntlets.' Which let you punch someone without taking an AOO when you don't have Unarmed strike.


Hmm, coulda sworn that there was a 'greater' version of magic vestment. Turns out...

[Ranos]

An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.

Edit : Woops, that was apparently already said.

Oh, about a defensive item that lets you punch ghosts ? That's doable. Savage species page 42, any wondrous item can be imbued with ghost touch, it raises their price by 10%.

[Bibliomancer]

It's not the Ethereal critter that has the force effect in the scenario in question. It's the material critter that does.

You get something anchored to yourself - Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, whatever - that extends to another plane.

Someone on that other plane then makes an interaction with that thing, anchored to you, that extends to the plane the other person is on.

Does that thing then push back on you?

I mean, I doubt anyone would argue against the Ethereal wizard using Disintegrate on on an Interposing Hand cast by a material wizard leaving the Interposing Hand intact. Why wouldn't a bull-rush attempt on the Bracers field of force also push the wearer?

Technically, the specific example is that any force effect cast on the Ethereal Plane does not effect the Material Plane, although the reverse is not true. I'm not sure about the bull-rush question, although I'd still be inclined to say that unless they use transdimensional spell or some similar ability they can't overcome the one-way barrier.

[herrhauptmann]

Oh, about a defensive item that lets you punch ghosts ? That's doable. Savage species page 42, any wondrous item can be imbued with ghost touch, it raises their price by 10%.

There's your answer. I'd suggest double checking to see if it's been updated to 3.5, but that looks like it.
If it's been updated, probably along the lines of "you can enchant bracers of armor as if they were regular armor" So throw the cost of a +1 or +2 (whatever ghost touch is) enchantment onto your bracers of armor. So Ghost touch bracers of armor +4 would cost the same as regular bracers of armor +5 (or 6)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Getting a +1 Ghost Touch Mithral Chain Shirt is *WAY* less expensive than a +8 Bracers of Armor, and can be upgraded FAR more significantly with nothing more than a Magic Vestments spell.

Save your cash, get the shirt.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

othing in the rules about that one, except for 'gauntlets.' Which let you punch someone without taking an AOO when you don't have Unarmed strike.

Gauntlets don’t prevent AoOs. Their special ability is to let you deal lethal damage without taking a penalty to attack or Improved Unarmed Strike.

[Worira]

There's your answer. I'd suggest double checking to see if it's been updated to 3.5, but that looks like it.
If it's been updated, probably along the lines of "you can enchant bracers of armor as if they were regular armor" So throw the cost of a +1 or +2 (whatever ghost touch is) enchantment onto your bracers of armor. So Ghost touch bracers of armor +4 would cost the same as regular bracers of armor +5 (or 6)

Ghost touch is a +3 bonus for armour, a +1 for weapons.

Also, there's no point making something that's made out of force Ghost Touch.

[Greenish]

Gauntlets don’t prevent AoOs.

Spiked ones do.

[ericgrau]

Armor doesn't normally apply to incorporeal touch attacks, but force is an exception. Bracers of armor should apply. The armor is around the torso and doesn't let you punch ghosts.

[lightningcat]

You can wear both the mithral shirt and bracers of armor, use the armor as a focus for all of the special abilities (up to +9 worth), plus any extras that do not use an enhancement bonus (such a slick, silent moves, and the various resistances), while the bracers provide your actual armor bonus. If your DM is using the rule presented in the Arms and Equipment Guide (pg 130) that allows bracers of armor to have up to +5 worth of armor special abilities then you can have up to +14 worth of special abilities and a +8 armor bonus to AC. Total price: a mere 270,100 gp (101,100 gp for shirt and 169,000 gp for the bracers), this is not counting any special abilities not based on enhancement bonuses.

All that being said; Yes, Bracers of Armor do protect against incorporeal attacks, but they do not count as ghost touch.