Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Arcane Study

    Through rigorous study, you have learned to prepare and cast a single arcane spell.

    Prerequisites: Int 10

    Benefit:

    You gain the ability to prepare and cast a single arcane spell once per day, as if you were a wizard of one half your non-spellcasting class levels plus any actual class levels in any arcane spellcasting class (For example, an 8th-level rogue has an effective caster level of 4, and a 3rd-level wizard / 6th-level warblade has an effective caster level of 6). The level of the spell you can prepare is dependent on your effective caster level; you can prepare a 2nd-level spell at caster level 3rd, a 3rd-level spell at caster level 5th, and so on. The spell you learn is selected at the moment you take the feat and cannot later be changed. You must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the spell's level in order to cast it.

    You have automatically memorized this spell and thus do not need to prepare it from a spellbook, but you do need 8 hours of rest in order to prepare the spell again.

    Since this feat grants you an actual spell slot, you are considered to be able to cast arcane spells up to the level of the spell you know, as well as an effective caster level equal to half of your non-spellcasting class levels plus your arcane spellcasting class levels. You may also use wands and scrolls of your chosen spell automatically without needing Use Magic Device, although you still need Use Magic Device for any other spells.

    Special:

    This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time you select it, you gain the use of an additional spell that you would be capable of casting (you may also choose to gain an additional daily use of a spell you already know).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sigurd's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Your experience in other endeavors does not teach you about magic. The feat should not give you any more access than 1st level. Spellcasters build experience upon experience to master more complicated spells. A blanket feat that simply bypassed that preparation would be unbalanced.

    Anything else would compare to. 'Sneaky practice' - this feat allows you to sneak attack as a thief of half your level. That would be a very popular choice.

    I don't think you can get a spell slot without learning your way up to it. You don't meet the prerequisites to the process. The prerequisite for a 3rd level slot is the 2nd level slot. Anything else would dismantle prestige class requirements.

    Sigurd
    Last edited by sigurd; 2010-02-27 at 11:16 PM.
    Logo by Serpentine

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Yep, I too think it's unbalanced. First off, this should have a Int requirement of at least 13. Also, the most powerfull spell you'd be able to learn would be something like half your Int modifier (round down, thus, Int 13 means you can learn a lv 0 spell). I think that multiple takes on this feat shouldn't grant you additional slot, only one additional spell, which would need preparation just the way Wizards prepare their spells by morning (thus, 1 hour for a single spell). Additionally, I belive that the caster level should be the same as the spell level.

    So, if a rogue with 17 Int takes this feat, he'd be able to learn a lv 1 spell with a caster level of 1. This way, you'd hardly have a character with a lv 2 spell.

    But really, im not sure if this would be a good feat. I wouldn't take it.
    "I'd rather DM to nice heroes than powerful slashers."
    Im a fan of dungeons.

    GENERATION 15: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Lets consider another possible comparison.

    Martial Study.

    Now, that said, I would probably require Spellcraft up to at least the minimum level needed to get the spell +3 to get a spell. You need to be 14th level to get a 3rd level spell and thus need 17 ranks in spell craft, for example. Maybe also knowledge Arcana or Religion. And I wouldn't allow anything other than the one spell, and not as a slot per se anyways, more like how Martial Study handles it. 1/day SLA in this case.
    Last edited by Knaight; 2010-02-27 at 11:49 PM.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

    Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    The feat states that you're considered to be able to cast spells up to that level, which means that you'll be able to bypass some prestige class entry requirements by taking just one feat. Which in turn means that in the hands of a clever optimizer, the feat can break the game.

    I'm not a clever optimizer and I don't have a build to prove that, but I'm sure there are ways to do that.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ashtagon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    The nearest comparable feat in terms of similar effect would be the Least Dragonmark feat from Eberron. That just gives you a single daily use of a 1st level spell chosen from a campaign-tailored shortlist of 2-4 spells. Additionally, you get a +2 bonus on one skill with that feat. It doesn't grant any caster level equivalence, and saving throw DCs remain at minimal level, no matter what your character level.

    Compared to that, your feat is simply much too good.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Meh, I like feats with some power, and the notion of clever people learning some spells without having to make some weird combos with semi-spellcasting classes. I'd say INT required is 12 + spell level to learn; you learn one spell of up to 2nd level; every time you select this feat you can choose another spell of one level higher, so having taken the feat three times means you can cast a 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spell; you need to choose those spells from an arcane spellcasters list, and have at least the level that spellcaster would need to cast the spells; preparation 30 minutes, caster level equal to arcane caster + half non-arcane-casting classes total.

    So a 16 INT rogue could spend three feats to learn a 2nd level spell (at 3rd level earliest), a 3rd level spell (at 5th level earliest), and a 4th level spell (at 7th level earliest). But because you get a feat at 6th and 9th level, you gain the 3rd lvl spell at 6th, and the 4th lvl spell at 9th level. Not terribly overpowered, I guess, given what kind of magic items you would have available to you at this point, and it does give you that sort of inner, unstrippable power Xykon rambled about. ... and still you're using up 3 feats.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Dragonmarks suck anyway, if you ask me, so I wouldn't be comparing it to them. Considering how many other feats can co-opt an entire class, I don't think you can say that one spell once per day at half your level is broken.

    You say that your experience in other endeavors does not teach you about magic? The same thing applies to the entire system: your experience in magic doesn't teach you about skills or martial combat, and yet you learn them. Your experience in skills doesn't give you ability in combat or magic, and yet if you level up through diplomancy you still learn them. A feat is an extra special heroic learning effort that very well should include your previous experience, so there's no reason to restrict a 9th level character taking a feat to what he could have taken at 1st level.

    Martial Study is an appropriate comparison. Martial adepts tend to get as many maneuvers/encounter as a caster should have useful spells per day, so that's fine. The only thing I'd change is about prerequisites. I'd let it qualify for being able to cast a specific spell or have a caster level, but you have no class list and can't cast spells of a certain level, so you can't qualify for most PrCs.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sigurd's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    You say that your experience in other endeavors does not teach you about magic? The same thing applies to the entire system: your experience in magic doesn't teach you about skills or martial combat, and yet you learn them. Your experience in skills doesn't give you ability in combat or magic, and yet if you level up through diplomancy you still learn them. A feat is an extra special heroic learning effort that very well should include your previous experience, so there's no reason to restrict a 9th level character taking a feat to what he could have taken at 1st level.
    No matter what strategy you choose to level you still progress through the level structure. At first level x at second level x+1. That is the basic approach to the game. It is abstracted but the principle is unbroken. I can't think of any feat that allows you to jump into an upper level class power of your choice without the prerequisites or spending some time in the class. Even your rewrite adds some prerequisite demands.

    For something like magic spells its hugely important because higher level spells are way more powerful than lower level spells. They represent far more of a commitment by the character than a combat maneuver.

    What you say about the learning skills is simply wrong. Fighters learn combat better and faster because that's what they do. Wizards do some fighting but they don't progress like fighters because they concern themselves with magic. Other classes have their own strategy. Tear that down and your class system becomes unrecognizable.


    But do as you like. I don't allow Tome of battle because I think it is broken anyway. I'd never let anything like this at my table. Using this feat to qualify for spell casting classes is like a spell caster using spell called "qualify me" or wish to simply bend the rules. Its not what the game designers intended but then this is home brew.


    Sigurd

    YMMV


    Sigurd
    Last edited by sigurd; 2010-03-01 at 12:47 AM.
    Logo by Serpentine

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    Martial Study is in fact a feat that lets you "jump", since you have an initiator level equal to half your levels in other classes, letting you qualify for some 2nd and 3rd level maneuvers without anything else.

    Since when does a wizard "do some fighting"? Wizards cast spells, they don't swing weapons unless they're desperate, and desperate actions do not equal training. But, since they get BAB and initiator level, the game assumes that they do learn some on the side. While there's no rule that lets you get half your level in other classes applied to your caster level, it would be a reasonable houserule with ToB out. In order to fight against magic, it makes sense for fighter types to spend some time learning about it on the side, just like wizards apparently do, and if wizards can learn enough to qualify for things, I don't see why fighters shouldn't. It may not match most high fantasy settings, but for a game it's fair and makes sense with the mechanics.

    Incidentally, thinking about ToB gives me some more ideas for the feat. To make it match the practical effect of Martial Study, I'd suggest limiting it to spells of no greater than 3rd level to start. You could pull straight from maneuver prerequisites and require one spell in the same school to learn one higher than third, two spells in the same school to learn one higher than fifth, and three spells to learn one higher than seventh. And let them take it up to three times. Clone it like you mean it!
    Last edited by Fizban; 2010-03-01 at 03:06 AM.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sigurd's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [3.5e] Feat: Arcane Study

    'some fighting' = fighting when pressed (desperate)
    Fighters do no spellcasting = no spellcasting.

    We shall have to cordially disagree.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by sigurd; 2010-03-01 at 03:21 AM.
    Logo by Serpentine

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •