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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Just an idea that came to me when I saw the argument "The swordsage is what the monk should have been" yet again. What about making a few monk abilities into swordsage abilities? So that you basically can fully emulate a monk with a swordsage?

    Therefore:

    The Englightened Swordsage
    Alternate Class features for the swordsage

    Still Mind
    Lose: Quick to Act
    Gain: You gain a +1 bonus to saves against spells and effects of the enchantment school. At levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, this bonus increases by +1.


    Purity of Body: (Su)
    Lose: Insightful Strike
    Gain: At 4th level, you gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases. At level 12, you also gain immunity to poisons, except for supernatural and magical poisons.

    Wholeness of Body: (Su)
    Lose: Sense Magic
    Gain: At 7th level or higher, youcan heal your own wounds. You can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice your current initiator level each day, and can spread this healing out among several uses.


    So what do people think? Worth it? Not Worth it? I left out exchanging Dual Boost for the Outsider type, because that seemed definitely a stupid trade.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-02-28 at 02:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    The only issue I see with this is that you gain Purity of Body at 5th level but give up Discipline Focus, which is gained at 4th. They should either give up Discipline Focus and get it at 4th, or give up Quick to Act +2 (shifting everything down by +1) and get it at 5th. Also, you have Purity of Body again instead of Still Mind.

    Other than that, looks good. I'd never take them, but then again I've never played a monk and don't plan to. Assuming I wanted to emulate a monk, they look fine from a balance perspective.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Ah, yes. Those were copy-paste errors. It's corrected now.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Everything looks fine now.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    I'd suggest some way to gain Ki Strike, but yeah, looks good to me.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Still mind is an utterly worthless trade. I don't know about you guys, but I would pick +1 initiative versus +1 to a very situational will save any day.

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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Quote Originally Posted by Apropos View Post
    Still mind is an utterly worthless trade. I don't know about you guys, but I would pick +1 initiative versus +1 to a very situational will save any day.
    Agreed. Slippery mind is probably too powerful to use in place of it though, so maybe a middle ground?

    Then again, that's not a monk ability. Hmm...
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-03-01 at 12:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Actually if I were playing an unnarmed swordsage, I wouldn't pick any of these things. Except possibly Wholeness of Body, because my wizard companion would probably already have detect magic

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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Quote Originally Posted by Apropos View Post
    Actually if I were playing an unnarmed swordsage, I wouldn't pick any of these things. Except possibly Wholeness of Body, because my wizard companion would probably already have detect magic
    The Sense Magic class feature is actually a free Identify, limited to weapons or armor, with 10-minute instead of hour-long casting time. Not sure if it's worth giving up for Wholeness of Body.

    The other two definitely aren't, though it's an interesting thought experiment. Maybe the first two could be new stances for Diamond Mind.

    (Oh, and Enlightened is misspelled, by the way.)
    Last edited by Haven; 2010-03-01 at 12:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    The Sense Magic class feature is actually a free Identify, limited to weapons or armor, with 10-minute instead of hour-long casting time. Not sure if it's worth giving up for Wholeness of Body.

    The other two definitely aren't, though it's an interesting thought experiment. Maybe the first two could be new stances for Diamond Mind.

    (Oh, and Enlightened is misspelled, by the way.)
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Considering an Artificer's Monocle is only 1500 gp and allows 1 minute identification of any magical item for the price of a detect magic spell and 5 ranks in Know(Arcana) , I would definitely consider taking Wholeness of Body.

    Though thats kinda not the point, since the "monk" still loses the ability to sense magic/identify, instead just shifting it onto any other caster in the party.

    None of the other ones though. Bonuses to hit and initiative are much better.

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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Quite true.
    Let's see. Would starting with a higher bonus and giving it against all mind-affecting spells and effects help? What about more healing, or a use-activated fast healing for a few rounds, like the Warlock? I mean, they don't have to be identical to the monk abilities.
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Personally, I always thought the monk's strongest combat options were Stunning Fist and Flurry of Blows. And those were mostly against lower-level opponents ... how about trading those out for some ACF features? Stunning Fist in particular is expensive in normal feat acquisition; why not trade out Quick to Act for Stunning Fist instead?

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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    How about this for stunning fist?
    Stunning Strike ACF
    Level: 1st
    Replaces: discipline focus(weapon focus), one maneuver known at first level (so you'd only know 5 instead of 6)
    Benefit: You may expend a readied strike as a standard action to make an attack as if you had the stunning fist feat. You may use this ability once per day per initiator level.
    Special: The Stunning Strike ACF counts as Stunning Fist to meet the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes
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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Monk abilities as Swordsage ACFs

    Hrrrrrm. I wouldn't lose maneuvers to get it, personally. My reasoning being: having a maneuver or stance is sometimes a prerequisite for higher maneuvers or stances. And I've got a feeling Stunning Fist tends to get less effective from the mid to higher levels, when that loss of the first level maneuver hurts a bit more.

    Same comment applies for expending readied strike maneuvers to make the attack. Monks aren't confined to having unexpended maneuvers, so why should a martial adept be so? We've got a "max uses/day = IL", which matches the monk's limit anyway. Leaving it so you're also confined to readied strike maneuvers (IMHO) needlessly restricts the unarmed swordsage's versatility in combat -- if he runs out of readied maneuvers, he should still be able to StunFist as well... IMHO.

    However, swapping it out for discipline focus (weapon focus) without anything more is a decent trade, since that feat is only a +1 enhancement. I think that's all you'd need.

    Just my thoughts, and not with an exhaustive rundown of how balanced it might be.

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