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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    ECL 20 build for a one shot campaign. There will be multiple combats, traps, puzzles, etc, they will be ridiculously difficult, and there will be no opportunity to rest whatsoever due to a "beat the clock" element of the game.

    All 3.5 books and Pathfinder allowed, with magazines, online content, and homebrew negotiable. The goal is to powerful enough to deal with any challenge, and as fun as possible.

    Go!

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    ECL 20 build for a one shot campaign. There will be multiple combats, traps, puzzles, etc, they will be ridiculously difficult, and there will be no opportunity to rest whatsoever due to a "beat the clock" element of the game.

    All 3.5 books and Pathfinder allowed, with magazines, online content, and homebrew negotiable. The goal is to powerful enough to deal with any challenge, and as fun as possible.

    Go!
    Question: How can you use pathfinder AND all the 3.5 books? I guess only core classes are changed? Seems like there would be some conflict there.

    In any case, the most versatile and powerful build I can think of on the spot (without being Pun-Pun-esque) would be:

    Wizard 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/

    All your prestige classes get full caster level and spell progression, and Master Specialist actually gives you +2 bonus caster level.

    Master Specialist lets you get tons of good abilities, based on the specialty you choose. I usually choose one of the following specialties:

    Abjuration:
    +5 competence bonus to dispel checks

    If you save against a spell that normally has a partial or half effect on a save, you suffer no effect (!!).

    Cast personal abjuration spell as touch spell 3/day (READ: Anti-magic field! Completely disable a mage and render all weapons, armor, non-magical junk).

    Conjuration
    Summoned creatures have caster level extra hit points.
    +5 to your conjuration spells versus dispel checks
    3/day: Cast conjuration as a swift action.


    As for IotSFV, she has absolutely insane defensive capabilities which block magic, disintegrate ranged/projectile attacks, and force any melee enemy to go through like 5 saves to even reach you. Chances are your foe will die, go insane, or be teleported to another plane before they ever reach you.

    Also, because it's a batman wizard, it's pretty fun because you can respond to almost any threat.

    Supplements used:
    IotSFV - Complete Arcane, p. 44
    Master Specialist - Complete Mage, p.70
    Last edited by 007; 2010-03-03 at 11:08 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Question: How can you use pathfinder AND all the 3.5 books? I guess only core classes are changed? Seems like there would be some conflict there.

    In any case, the most versatile and powerful build I can think of on the spot (without being Pun-Pun-esque) would be:

    Wizard 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3

    ...
    Eventually though the Wizard will have to rest for spells, which he can't do.

    I'd suggest Gish. Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight (or Knight Phantom if you want class features) 7.

    Spells of a Level 18 Wizard, plus BAB +16, so you're a pretty good combatant for when they run out. Plus pulling out a sword then barbecuing enemies when they laugh at you is fun

    Edit: Hellfire Warlock might work for longevity, social skills (High Cha) and ability to destroy traps without worrying.
    Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2010-03-03 at 11:09 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Guys, no opportunity to rest so casters are out I guess...

    What about a rogue/swordsage build? (6/16 to get 9th level maneuvers)

    Saph's horizon tripper concept also comes to mind.

    And, of course for such a setting, a monk lvl 20 with all the non-core goodies out there.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    I dunno at 20 level spellcasting you generally don't need to rest for a one shot encounter, even if it is a long encounter. A spell like Freezing Glance, 6th level, gives you a non-mind affecting Save or Die (they are frozen for 20 mins) every rounds as a swift action.

    And that's just one spell. You have about 70 spells. No to mention pearls of power.
    Last edited by 007; 2010-03-03 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Wizard 4/Spelldancer 2/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5

    Why? Action economy, and you're not as broken at it as a psion can be :P If you wanna go all out, remove the restrictions on the Chrono-Legionaire challenge and go full out Synchronicity Shuffle with him. You'll get 17/17 ML/BAB but it's a moot point with infinite actions.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Crusader would be the obvious choice, as he can deal out pain and heal himself all day. Tomb Tainted Soul Dream Necromancer would be devastating if you're allowed to build your zombies during backstory. Wizard with accelerated time Genesis plane for resting would be optimal, but that's a little too cheesy. Though you could sit on a pile of scrolls and bound demons and such; casters are perfectly viable for endurance if you plan for it.

    If you can't take breaks between combats at all, then healing will be hard to come by. A Clericzilla with Heal and Chained DMM Persists will be incredibly valuable here.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Disclaimer: This is from the top of my head, it might have some faults, but I think the general Idea could work.

    Cleric of Kord; Grappler

    Domains: Competition, Strength, Luck

    important Feats: Extra turning, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), imp. unarmed attack, imp. grapple

    Sounds like alot of fun to me =)

    I have no idea how optimized this is, but I'd like to try this out someday.

    Cheers,
    Farlion

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    The opportunity for a caster class really depends heavily on how long this takes. Presumably though, due to it being a "campaign" it's going to take a while.

    Here are some questions that are important:

    Are there other members of the party? If so, what are they going to be making? How much do you think you're going to be able to count on them?

    How long will the campaign be, and do you know any other details about it that might be relevant (such as enemies, setting, etc).

    Are there any particular classes or mechanics that you are unwilling to use due to unproficiency or lack of interest?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    And there's a number of casters that don't have a limited number of spells. Warlock and Chaos Mage off the top of my head.

    Personally, I'd go for either of the Penny Dreadful team's homebrewed Barbarian or Monk.
    Last edited by Barbarian MD; 2010-03-03 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Question: How can you use pathfinder AND all the 3.5 books? I guess only core classes are changed? Seems like there would be some conflict there.
    Basically we're going to be using 3.5 rules with a few houserules, but can take classes or feats from anything. So I can use the Pathfinder Wizard/Druid/Cleric/etc, or the core ones, or anything from a splat book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    How long will the campaign be, and do you know any other details about it that might be relevant (such as enemies, setting, etc).
    The game will be played out over one weekend. It's likely to have multiple encounters against Epic-ish enemies in hell-ish conditions. Think of distilled Tome of Horrors. So a full caster of some sort will probably not run out of spells, but by the same token if I blow my 9th level spells on the first encounter (as I will probably be tempted to do) there will be no opportunity to rest in order to regain them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    Are there other members of the party? If so, what are they going to be making? How much do you think you're going to be able to count on them?
    Yes, there will be one or two other party members. I have no idea what they'll be making. But their optimization skills are pretty subpar, so I can't depend on them to do much except for distract the enemy occasionally. The DM and I have been gaming together for years, and he knows that I usually tone down my builds so that I don't outshine other party members. This game is an explicit opportunity to go nuts on whatever I feel like, and if the other party members die or just stand there watching me, so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    Are there any particular classes or mechanics that you are unwilling to use due to unproficiency or lack of interest?
    I have access to almost every WotC D&D book in existence (I'm missing some 3.0 material) and some 3rd party stuff. I've written guides for many of the more obscure mechanics in 3.5, so I'm willing to consider anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by KellKheraptis View Post
    If you wanna go all out, remove the restrictions on the Chrono-Legionaire challenge and go full out Synchronicity Shuffle with him. You'll get 17/17 ML/BAB but it's a moot point with infinite actions.
    The old WotC link is dead and I'm AFB right now - how exactly does this work?

    I wonder if there is a way to get full Cleric casting, Wizard casting, Tome of Battle maneuvers, and Turn Undead. Maybe some sort of Archivist Ur Priest Mystic Theurge Ruby Knight Vindicator Legacy Champion thing?
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-03-03 at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Classic Binder 1/Warlock 4/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/Hellfire Warlock 3 comes to mind.

    But wait, really you should use this as an opportunity to get some cool abilities that you don't really ever get a chance to use, because they're capstones.

    Warblade 20 -- actually use the awesome Dual Stance.

    Factotum 20 -- show off Cunning Brilliance. Or, I guess, Factotum 19/Master of Masks 1 works too.

    Heh. Truenamer 20? No one can say Truenamer is actually weak at this level, if he just abuses Gate every battle. Of course in a high-powered campaign like this, you'd use plenty of cheese (starting with Item Familiar and working your way up from there) to boost your Truespeak checks to incredible levels.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-03-03 at 02:39 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    I suggest a Feral Longtooth Shifter Barbarian X/Primeval Y/Weretouched Master Z

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    20 wiz, or some such combination. Blow a chunk of WBL and make yourself a private demiplane that has 20 years pass compared to one second on the material plane. Congrats, you can rest as much as you want, just assign your contingency to planeshift you to it if you are about to be hit by a teleport blocker.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    No opportunity to rest? Be a Warlock!

    Here's a build I've been wanting to try:

    Warlock 5/Binder 1/Ruathar 3/Paragnostic Apostle 5/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3

    You have invocations as a Warlock 18 (2 darks), 18d6 eldritch blast before items, all Knowledge skills as class skills + Bardic Knowledge, Knowledge Devotion, a free magic item, a bunch of skill tricks and double your lifespan. How cool is that?
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-03-03 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    No opportunity to rest? Be a Warlock!

    Here's a build I've been wanting to try:

    Warlock 5/Binder 1/Ruathar 3/Paragnostic Apostle 5/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3

    You have invocations as a Warlock 18 (2 darks), 18d6 eldritch blast before items, all Knowledge skills as class skills + Bardic Knowledge, Knowledge Devotion, a free magic item and double your lifespan. How cool is that?
    Seconded, sorta.

    I suggest Warlock 5/Rogue 5/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Spellwarp Sniper 6
    Last edited by LichPrinceAlim; 2010-03-03 at 02:57 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Factotum 16/Warblade 4

    16 BAB/16 CL/12 ML, Inspiration points recharge after every encounter and, thanks to being able to burn 3 of those for a standard, you can recharge your Maneuvers without really missing a turn. Good INT synergy, and with the right feats (Faerie Mysteries and Keen Intellect) you can safely dump Con and Wis. Probably going to want to be human for the feat, and snag at least four, possibly as many as six, FoI, then fill in the rest with whatever's fun for you. One option would be using a high-crit weapon (or at least a weapon with a hefty crit range) and taking Improved Crit, since you'll have scary high Int and be able to add it twice to confirmation rolls when you really want to.

    A little tweak to that one would be making it Factotum 13/Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 4 which would net you higher base attack and free Int to damage, but cost you some caster levels and Improved Cunning Defense. Although, if you can convince your DM that since Factotum has Sneak Attack they should let it count for Daring Outlaw, you'd get a handy free Dodge Bonus and boosted Reflex Saves.

    Another fun one might be Factotum 17/Uncanny Trickster 3, as you end up with hilarious amounts of skill points/skill tricks, and you still get the Factotum's brutal level 19 Class Feature.

    Can you tell I like playing Factotums?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by LichPrinceAlim View Post
    Seconded, sorta.

    I suggest Warlock 5/Rogue 5/Spellwarp Sniper 10
    I think you mean Arcane Trickster - Spellwarp Sniper is only 5 levels long, and Warlocks can't qualify without lots of cheese (they don't "cast X level spells.")

    Assuming AT is what you meant, no need to waste levels on rogue - just take Martial Study + Martial Stance for Assassin's Stance, and qualify for the PrC that way, freeing up 5 levels for other things. (3 should probably go to Hellfire Warlock, and 1 to Binder.)

    EDIT: Ninja-edited, but locks still can't qualify for SwS, and SwS is still only 5 levels long.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-03-03 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    I think you mean Arcane Trickster - Spellwarp Sniper is only 5 levels long, and Warlocks can't qualify without lots of cheese (they don't "cast X level spells.")

    Assuming AT is what you meant, no need to waste levels on rogue - just take Martial Study + Martial Stance for Assassin's Stance, and qualify for the PrC that way, freeing up 5 levels for other things. (3 should probably go to Hellfire Warlock, and 1 to Binder.)

    EDIT: Ninja-edited, but locks still can't qualify for SwS, and SwS is still only 5 levels long.
    oops. I meant to make it

    Rogue 5/Warlock 5/Sorcerer 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Human Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 7 - use summoned creatures for combats, traps, etc, and planar binding to create your own demonic party. Let the two other players control the monsters as an additional character. Probably there is something you can bind that will be able to detect traps if arcane sight doesn't do the trick.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by LichPrinceAlim View Post
    oops. I meant to make it

    Rogue 5/Warlock 5/Sorcerer 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5
    You still can't cast 3rd level spells Also, there really is no need for Warlock in there, as the sorcerer would be providing all the spells for rays. You'd have a maximum CL of 10 at level 20, 14 with PC, and 5th-level spells... sneak attack or not, that just isn't very strong.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    You still can't cast 3rd level spells Also, there really is no need for Warlock in there, as the sorcerer would be providing all the spells for rays. You'd have a maximum CL of 10 at level 20, 14 with PC, and 5th-level spells... sneak attack or not, that just isn't very strong.
    Not to be oppositional, but with one feat, you most definitely can cast 3rd level spells by Sorc 4 even with that character ;)

    That said, I wouldn't take that route if going for a SwS, since you want all the +CL you can get. And taking Warlock levels isn't gonna do that for you.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Giacomo View Post
    Guys, no opportunity to rest so casters are out I guess...
    Tainted Scholar.

    Of course, it's kinda overpowered. But awesome nonetheless.

    Alternatively, be a Spell to Power Erudite using Mental Pinnacle.

    Those are two really obvious ways to avoid running out of spells.
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    Your Tainted Scholar builds look fun, but I'm lactose intolerant
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Most fun build? Binder 20. Bind Malphas, Andromalius, Marchosias, and Buer, and you're a super-stealth rogue with assassin abilities, anti-stealth, tons of immunities, and infinite healing. You never have to worry about spell slots or death from attrition, so you enter every fight at 100% power. The build also has no reliance on magical items. Not the most powerful build, but most certainly fun.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    This depends on what is allowed in your backstory, but an evolved Necropolitan (if interpreted as a +0 LA template).

    Using that as the base for many of these builds give you the undead immunities, and, IIRC, each 'evolution' gives you +1 LA. I imagine you could create a balance between the evolution and class levels to give you an optimal power basis.

    Undead tainted scholar gives a lot of bonuses, which probably would counteract any 'no rest' penalties.

    A Planar Shepherd that uses the accelerated time plane?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    I'd suggest some kind of multipouncing Glaivelock. I think you can do it with Crinti Maurauder, Swordsage, Warlock, and Jade Phoenix Mage or some sort.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    This depends on what is allowed in your backstory, but an evolved Necropolitan (if interpreted as a +0 LA template).

    Using that as the base for many of these builds give you the undead immunities, and, IIRC, each 'evolution' gives you +1 LA. I imagine you could create a balance between the evolution and class levels to give you an optimal power basis.

    Undead tainted scholar gives a lot of bonuses, which probably would counteract any 'no rest' penalties.

    A Planar Shepherd that uses the accelerated time plane?
    "A lot of bonuses"? Under one interpretation your taint is fixed at Cha score+1 and you suck, under the other you get INFINITE SAVE DCS AND INFINITE SPELLS PER DAY.

    At which point it kinda ceases to be fun, since fights consist of "I cast Chained Implosion (thanks Blooded Metamagic!). Anyone roll a nat 20?"
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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronologist View Post
    Most fun build? Binder 20. Bind Malphas, Andromalius, Marchosias, and Buer, and you're a super-stealth rogue with assassin abilities, anti-stealth, tons of immunities, and infinite healing. You never have to worry about spell slots or death from attrition, so you enter every fight at 100% power. The build also has no reliance on magical items. Not the most powerful build, but most certainly fun.
    Why not Anima Mage. It's basically a binder that's also a Wizard and has a bunch of instant metamagic.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    I'd suggest some kind of multipouncing Glaivelock. I think you can do it with Crinti Maurauder, Swordsage, Warlock, and Jade Phoenix Mage or some sort.
    Rules-wise, you'd need a cooperative DM to handwave a few things. I believe Shadow Pounce doesn't grant a full-round action, it grants a full-round attack. Eldritch Glaive doesn't use an attack action, it's a SLA that has a full-round casting time, and lets you make attack rolls as part of the spell effect.

    I would think a Haberdash build would work well. Factotum 5/Master of Masks 1/Factotum +14. Or maybe throw a little/lot of Chameleon in there. Add a few jugs of Shapesand (Sandstorm, look it up, and then ask the GM if you can make 12 pounds of alchemist's fire. Or explosives. Or colossal scorpion poison.) and you could make any exotic weapon you could possibly imagine.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Most Fun 20th level Build

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