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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    veovius's Avatar

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    Default [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Hi, first post, I think, long time lurker :)

    I'm looking into playing a Warlock, and I was planning on a Warlock/Hellfire Warlock straight build, but then I saw Eldritch Disciple. I was wondering if there was a way for a good-aligned character to get into the class sooner than Warlock 1/Cleric 3? The requirement says able to cast 2nd-level spells. ANy other way to do that?

    Oh, no Ur-Priest, good only.

    Oh one more thing. Can I take cloistered cleric as a chaotic good? Fluff text says MOST are non-chaotic.
    Thanks!

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Versatile spellcaster should work.
    Last edited by term1nally s1ck; 2010-03-04 at 04:22 AM. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Quote Originally Posted by veovius View Post
    Hi, first post, I think, long time lurker :)

    Oh one more thing. Can I take cloistered cleric as a chaotic good? Fluff text says MOST are non-chaotic.
    Thanks!
    Yes you can. In terms of mechanical importance fluff text is code for "Save your eyes some trouble".
    Last edited by Wings of Peace; 2010-03-04 at 04:29 AM.
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    veovius's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    So I could get in with uh...Warlock 1/Cleric 1 with Versatile Spellcaster?

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Versatile Spellcaster? For a prepared caster? Does that work?

    I'm AFB, but there's Midnight Metamagic (Magic of Incarnum), Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane) and Improved Sigil: Krau (Races of Destiny) as the usual early-entry shenanigans.
    Quote Originally Posted by veovius View Post
    So I could get in with uh...Warlock 1/Cleric 1 with Versatile Spellcaster?
    If the spellcasting requirement is the only one, sure, that is easy to get around. If it requires a number > 5 of ranks in a skill, it is... nearly impossible to qualify before level 3 + that number of ranks.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Ok, so entry requirements for Eldritch Disciple is :

    Skills - Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Knowledge (planes) 4 ranks
    Spells - Ability to cast 2nd level divine spells
    Invocations - Ability to use Least Invocations
    Special - Ability to Turn Undead, must worship Chaotic or Evil deity

    I can do the Invocations with Warlock 1. I'm not sure about the cleric requirements. I don't really want to do War1/Clc3, since I'd rather maximize the Warlock part of the character. If I could do Warlock 4/Cleric 1 or something, that would be great, using cheese to get that 2nd level spell.

    Versatile Spellcaster, doesn't it say that you can cast a 2nd level spell you know? At 1st level, I wouldn't know any 2nd level spells....

    I don't know if you can do this, but can I take a domain as a cleric that grants a 2nd level spell as its power? Is there one? I just thinking aloud here...
    Last edited by veovius; 2010-03-04 at 06:07 AM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Cleric can cast cure spells spontaneously, qualifying them for versatile spellcaster, and Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd level spell. Which you can cast from 2 1st level slots with that feat.

    So yeah, I'd say it qualifies you.

    You can also use a Bard with Inspire Greatness to give you the skill points to qualify for the class, IIRC. However, if you're aiming to max out warlock and hellfire warlock, you probably want a dip into binder, too, to negate the penalties. Or a feat for the Strongheart Vest soulmeld.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    If it's Hellfire Warlock you're after, a better option is to use Ur-Priest rather than cleric. You have to be evil and find a dead god or fiend with ranks to worship (there are plenty, in all three main settings), but you'll have the room in your build to pick up Binder and Hellfire Warlock, and still get both 9th-level spells and Dark Invocations.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Quote Originally Posted by veovius View Post
    Oh, no Ur-Priest, good only.
    Thanks!
    Seriously, read what he wants before suggesting things, people?

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Depending on your DM, through the adaption clause, you might be able to squeeze a good Ur-Priest who's actually trying to revive his god. (Steals only from evil gods, to do good work).

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Mea Culpa.

    As a Good ED, he has to choose between Hellfire Warlock/Binder and 9th-level spells... or be an Apostle of Peace, which is a can of worms all on its own, but at least he can get 9ths and Hellfire that way (ironically enough.)

    For arguments sake, lets see about making him a healer AoP build.

    Warlock 6/Binder 1/AoP 1/Eldritch Disciple 9/Hellfire Warlock 3

    (You need Versatile Spellcaster to qualify for ED with AoP 1.)

    - Invocations as Warlock 18 (2 darks)
    - Spells as AoP 9 (including Gate)
    - 12d6 Eldritch Healing Blast (You can't shoot people! Unless you find a way to make EB nonlethal, anyway.)
    - VoP 13 benefits - though personally, I would dump VoP since by RAW it doesn't let you use your own spells (no holy symbol allowed.) This allows you to use items once again.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    You can use stuff you make yourself IIRC, it wouldn't be a hard check to craft a wooden holy symbol.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    You can use stuff you make yourself IIRC, it wouldn't be a hard check to craft a wooden holy symbol.
    Not only does the feat say nothing like that, lack of a holy symbol was intended to be a drawback of VoP.

    They simply dropped the ball when designing the Apostle of Peace, as all of their spells have "DF" in the components.

    VoP bans all possessions, then gives specific exceptions. Items don't get a pass simply because you made them. You can't even borrow a holy symbol, since any spell you cast with it would count as using it.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Lightbulb If your DM is a RAW fanatic just ignore my post.

    If you talk your DM into it maybe homebrew something like Precocious Apprentice (CA 181) for a divine class. Probably not cleric, but maybe druid or spirit shaman (or, IIRC there was a third party witch that used divine spells and a spellbook) could be fluffed to say that an elder teaches you your magic.

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    Default Re: If your DM is a RAW fanatic just ignore my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishcumbeebeeda View Post
    If you talk your DM into it maybe homebrew something like Precocious Apprentice (CA 181) for a divine class. Probably not cleric, but maybe druid or spirit shaman (or, IIRC there was a third party witch that used divine spells and a spellbook) could be fluffed to say that an elder teaches you your magic.
    Not 3rd Party. Archivist, Heroes of Horror. Happens to be one of the 6 most powerful classes in the game.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Getting into Eldritch Disciple early?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2xMachina View Post
    Depending on your DM, through the adaption clause, you might be able to squeeze a good Ur-Priest who's actually trying to revive his god. (Steals only from evil gods, to do good work).
    Hell, the class itself doesn't even require you to forsake all of the Deities. It's just fluff text saying that they normally do and are shunned/hated by actual Clerics because they steal from gods.


    But you can get around all of that by just worshipping an Elder Evil like Seterous.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: If your DM is a RAW fanatic just ignore my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Not 3rd Party. Archivist, Heroes of Horror. Happens to be one of the 6 most powerful classes in the game.
    I wasn't talking about the Archivist. I was talking about a class called "Witch." I think was Power Classes, or Master Classes or something like that, published by Mongoose and Green Ronin respectively. I can see where the confusion lies though. Suppose I could have worded that sentence better; given the lack of grammatical aptitude (unfortunately even by native speakers) on the net at large I should have realized that saying "witch" (which looks a lot like which) right next to "that" would have made it look like a typo/rewrite. Sorry about that.

    EDIT: Found it. Wasn't Power or Master, it was "The Quintessential Witch," from Mongoose. Gets a familiar, nature sense, wild shape, Cha based divine spellcasting using a "book of shadows," eventually they stop showing the effects of aging and have an increased life span. Oh and alter self at will.

    FURTHER EDIT: I guess for the sake of completeness I should also mention that they get a bunch of bonus feats and the ability to fascinate people. (If they fail a save you have absolute control over them except that any order that qualifies as suicide breaks the effect.)
    Last edited by Ishcumbeebeeda; 2010-03-04 at 03:13 PM.

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