Base Class Challenge Chat Thread

[Temotei]

Note to Temotei221: Your avatar is silly looking. Just sayin'. I just wanted to use the Note to <person> tag for giggles.

That's okay! It's a Final Fantasy 2d6 character. He's allowed to look silly.

[arguskos]

That's okay! It's a Final Fantasy 2d6 character. He's allowed to look silly.

That... explains much, actually.

Also, work on the Extinguisher goes... slowly. I'll get it done (eventually), but I'm being all slow and stuff. Also, I don't want to go memorize and learn the illumination rules, cause I remember them being stupid.

[Temotei]

That... explains much, actually.

Also, work on the Extinguisher goes... slowly. I'll get it done (eventually), but I'm being all slow and stuff. Also, I don't want to go memorize and learn the illumination rules, cause I remember them being stupid.

Make new ones.

[Eurus]

Uh, you can, but if it's unfinished by deadline, it's disqualified. At least, that's my assumption, since every other contest hereabouts works the same way.

Oh, okay. Not sure why I thought you couldn't, then. I'll probably post what I have so far of mine up soon, then.

[arguskos]

Make new ones.

But... they already exist. I build off of what has come before, not force folks to learn a whole new system if need doesn't exist.

Also, thanks to the Rules Compendium being awesome, the illumination rules are significantly easier now than I recall them being.

[Sereg]

Alright, for now, I've pretty much just done the table. I'll come back to do the rest later and see if I can help with the other classes that have gone up. I seriously suck with names, so if people can think of better names for my class and it's features, I'd be glad to hear them.

[Owrtho]

Well, I put up a basic version of the twilight caster. Unfortunately while the class is pretty much done, I've had to make a new magic system, which means I now need to make around 30 spells for it (I'll likely make 32 spells just to make it have 4 choices per spell level as they only gain access to level 8).
As for that, I'm somewhat certain that it will need some balancing. Anyways, feedback is welcome, as are any mist form suggestions (also, most of he low level ones will be able to scale at the cost of more mist squares, so as not to become obsolete without making them overpowered. In most cases they will require that additional squares be consumed to increase the caster level above the default, and will not be able to have more than your caster level extra consumed, though there may be some exceptions).

Owrtho

[IcarusWings]

I've submitted my entry which is by no means finished (I still need to stat out the other 11 katas, fill in the dead levels and come up with a capstone), because I have had little time recently (read: I bought Final Fantasy XIII).

The link to light is tenuous at best, as it was originally meant for the zodiac but I reflavoured it with the constellations for this competition.

It will likely be horribly unbalanced for 2 reasons...

1. This is my second ever homebrew.
2. I've never actually played due to there being no other players in my area, although I have read most rulebooks.

So there's my entry

Merlin

[peacenlove]

Mysteries and Paths: Again, details will come later (see tome of magic if your impatient). Differences are that you don't gain new mysteries every level. More on that at level 2. You still start with 1 mystery. Unlike a shadowcaster, you may advance to learning innate mysteries if you have 1 third level mystery (rather than 2). Similarly, you may advance to learning master mysteries if as long as you know 1 sixth level mystery (rather than 2). You may only use mysteries during the day.

You can learn master mysteries without having selected any initiate mystery much less 2 6th level ones. The same rule applies to Initiate mysteries regarding apprentice mysteries known. I can find the page reference if requested.

[Owrtho]

You can learn master mysteries without having selected any initiate mystery much less 2 6th level ones. The same rule applies to Initiate mysteries regarding apprentice mysteries known. I can find the page reference if requested.

Ah, your right. I forgot that part about it and remembered that you need two mysteries of the previous level. Thanks for pointing that out. It will help for the purpose of easier wording.
Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the ethereal magic so far? Or do I need to post some mist forms before much can be said?

Edit: Also, I added two level 1 mist forms. Names and balance may need some work.

Owrtho

[IcarusWings]

Ethereal magic seems like a neat idea to me, but no idea how it would play mechanically.

[Owrtho]

To be honest, I'm not quite sure how it would balance either. In general, you can cast more spells than most other casters per day, but for each one you use, the area that you can cast them in gets smaller (hopefully causing some balance). The issue then becomes how much mist they should have, and how strong the spells should be for a given amount of mist.

Edit: Added a level 2 mist form. Its sorta like colour spray, but different. Also another level 1 mist form.
And suggestions and/or ideas for mist forms would be greatly appreciated (as are better names). As it is I can't think of too many ethereal themed abilities (and most of the ones I can think of are of debatable use/power, like reducing all elemental damage in the mist, or possibly something allowing mist forms to temporarily act as a specific element for the purposes of bypassing DR).

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Look for the Extinguisher tonight, for certain (assuming I don't burn out on the capstones, which I might to be honest, I'm running short on ideas). EDIT: It's up! Probably sorta OP at the moment, but I was kinda flailing around for ideas. It's got some choppy grammar too, but hey, it's UP, right? Right. Thoughts? (if anyone has any, of course)

@Owrtho (you have a hard username to type, you know that?): I've been watching your mist forms, but I'm not sure I have too many suggestions. I'm just not really sure how to judge them. I guess I'll call them "uh, pretty cool?" cause I'm just not sure what to balance them against. Sorry for being really unhelpful, but I wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring your efforts or anything.

[Owrtho]

Light Absorption (Su): At 2nd level, the Extinguisher learns the primary source of his power. He begins to emanate a field of energy (radius 5 ft/class level) that absorbs ambient light, and draws it into the Extinguisher. This has a set of effects. First, it sets the illumination level in the area of the field to shadowy illumination at best. Second, the Extinguisher may take a standard action to focus the field, reducing the illumination level in the area of the field to total darkness, this darkness lasts for class level rounds. Each time the Extinguisher does this, he gains a shadow disc. He may have up to 1 shadow disc per class level he has at any given time. A shadow disc is a physical manifestation of the shadow energy that the Extinguisher channels, and automatically appears on his person when he reduces the light levels to darkness.

I don't think the 'he has' should be there. Also should mention what the insight bonus he gains is. Otherwise the class looks fine (mind I'm not the best at balance and am not too familiar with some of the spells referenced).
The thing that bothers me the most though is the shadow disks. I mean, he sucks in light, and gains an object made of... shadow? Seems light he should get disks made of light from that. Also seems that given he uses light for power some of his abilities should be light damage rather than dark damage (though the dark abilities could still work for the most part, but it seems it would be more from him drawing in the light than from him manipulating darkness).
The thing is that based on how he sucks in light to use as power, it seems the class would be more focused on using light abilities in the dark, sorta like "The deeper the darkness, the brighter the light shines" kinda thing. Then again, it is your class, but if you keep them being linked to darkness, I'd suggest possibly changing how they gain power (at least fluff wise). Perhaps rather than absorbing light they actually convert it to darkness, and the disk is the excess energy.

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm being too harsh.

Anyways, glad to hear you like the ethereal magic. And if you have so many ideas, it would help if you let me in on a few (if not by posting them here then perhaps by PMing them to me). Also, I know what you mean about the balancing. It is rather odd compared to most magic systems already out there.

Also, I don't find my user name that hard to type...

Owrtho

[arguskos]

I don't think the 'he has' should be there. Also should mention what the insight bonus he gains is.

Insight is a bonus type. He gains insight bonuses on attacks/damage or on skill checks when he snaps a disc.

The thing that bothers me the most though is the shadow disks. I mean, he sucks in light, and gains an object made of... shadow? Seems light he should get disks made of light from that. Also seems that given he uses light for power some of his abilities should be light damage rather than dark damage (though the dark abilities could still work for the most part, but it seems it would be more from him drawing in the light than from him manipulating darkness).
The thing is that based on how he sucks in light to use as power, it seems the class would be more focused on using light abilities in the dark, sorta like "The deeper the darkness, the brighter the light shines" kinda thing. Then again, it is your class, but if you keep them being linked to darkness, I'd suggest possibly changing how they gain power (at least fluff wise). Perhaps rather than absorbing light they actually convert it to darkness, and the disk is the excess energy.

The idea is that he draws light into himself, and transmutes that into a disc of darkness, which he then uses to facilitate his abilities to do it again. Slowly but surely, he is building strength to learn the Brilliant Annihilation effect. It's a changing of light into darkness sorta thing. I guess I wasn't clear enough about that, I might change the fluff to make that a little clearer.

Also, I do not want him to be a "light in the darkness" class, since I envisioned the Extinguisher as being sorta evil-bent. It's hard to be a good character when you destroy light.

EDIT: I changed the shadow disc's explanation to be clearer that it is a physical manifestation of the Extinguisher's natural skill to turn light into darkness. Does that clear it up somewhat, Owrtho?

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm being too harsh.

Not at all, glad to have your commentary.

Anyways, glad to hear you like the ethereal magic. And if you have so many ideas, it would help if you let me in on a few (if not by posting them here then perhaps by PMing them to me). Also, I know what you mean about the balancing. It is rather odd compared to most magic systems already out there.

I don't have many ideas at all, I'm afraid. I really was flailing around for stuff for the Extinguisher, much less a more ambitious project like ethereal magic.

Also, I don't find my user name that hard to type...

Owrtho

Course you don't! You type it all the time. Just saying that I keep wanting to spell it Orthwo, instead of Owrtho. On that note, does it mean anything?

[Owrtho]

Insight is a bonus type. He gains insight bonuses on attacks/damage or on skill checks when he snaps a disc.

Ah, I see. The wording though is a little odd. Makes it sound like the skill bonus is different from the attack bonus.

The idea is that he draws light into himself, and transmutes that into a disc of darkness, which he then uses to facilitate his abilities to do it again. Slowly but surely, he is building strength to learn the Brilliant Annihilation effect. It's a changing of light into darkness sorta thing. I guess I wasn't clear enough about that, I might change the fluff to make that a little clearer.

Also, I do not want him to be a "light in the darkness" class, since I envisioned the Extinguisher as being sorta evil-bent. It's hard to be a good character when you destroy light.

EDIT: I changed the shadow disc's explanation to be clearer that it is a physical manifestation of the Extinguisher's natural skill to turn light into darkness. Does that clear it up somewhat, Owrtho?

I see. Also, it isn't all that hard to be good when destroying light. I find it rather annoying when light is considered to be tied to good. Light can just as easily be evil, and darkness can be good.

I don't have many ideas at all, I'm afraid. I really was flailing around for stuff for the Extinguisher, much less a more ambitious project like ethereal magic.

Ah, I misread you comment. I missed the not. Well, don't feel like you need to come up with ideas. But any that just come to you are welcome.

Course you don't! You type it all the time. Just saying that I keep wanting to spell it Orthwo, instead of Owrtho. On that note, does it mean anything?

I think I've seen people have that problem before. As for meaning, it doesn't have any in particular. It was actually an incantation in a (somewhat strange looking back on it) dream. Happened to remember it and decided to use it.

Owrtho

[Temotei]

Light Negation (Su): At 10th level, the Extinguisher learns the secret of negation. When he uses his Light Absorption to lower the light levels to darkness and thus creates a shadow disc, he may create a negation disc instead. A negation disc has only one purpose: to violently nullify light when broken. When a negation disc is broken, it lowers the illumination level in a 60 ft radius around itself to total darkness. For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals everything in the area 1d6/class level of the Extinguisher that made the disc damage. Affected creatures get a Fortitude save (DC 15+Wisdom modifier of the Extinguisher that made the disc) for half damage. An Extinguisher may only have one negation disc at any time, and may only use Light Negation to create one negation disc every 24 hours.

The extinguisher takes damage from their own attack? That bold phrase should probably be reworded, as well..."For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals 1d6/class levels damage to everything in the area.

I'll get to reading past that. So far, it doesn't seem overpowered to me. I haven't looked at the spell replications though.

[b]Mind of Shadow[b] (Ex):

Definitely make that code right.

Soul of Shadow (Ex): At 18th level, the Extinguisher becomes a living shadow, a wisp in the darkness, a terrible thought. He gains the Dark Template (Tome of Magic, page 158).

You should probably mention that the level adjustment doesn't come with it.

Enervating darkness is really powerful.

Standard action #1: Snuff out light and gain disc.
Standard action #2: Enervating darkness.
Standard action #3: See #1.
Standard action #4: See #2.

It's probably not overpowered though. The at-will thing is kind of setting off an alarm in my head, but considering most combats will end after 3 - 7 rounds, being able to pump out a spell giving 1 negative level per round with a save is probably okay, even if it is against everything in 20 feet of darkness.

One thing I noticed--darkness is used a lot. Blind Fight could come in handy.

I love brilliant annihilation, by the way. It's...brilliant.

OoPEACH: Is it Firefox making those squiggly red lines bigger?

[d13]

I guess I'll be popping my head in for my first contest ever

[arguskos]

Ah, I see. The wording though is a little odd. Makes it sound like the skill bonus is different from the attack bonus.

Ah, I see. Well, good to get that clarified.

I see. Also, it isn't all that hard to be good when destroying light. I find it rather annoying when light is considered to be tied to good. Light can just as easily be evil, and darkness can be good.

It's common knowledge, and besides, BLOWING UP THE SUN is typically a Bad Thing(tm).

Ah, I misread you comment. I missed the not. Well, don't feel like you need to come up with ideas. But any that just come to you are welcome.

If I do, I'll let you know. No guarantees.

I think I've seen people have that problem before. As for meaning, it doesn't have any in particular. It was actually an incantation in a (somewhat strange looking back on it) dream. Happened to remember it and decided to use it.

Owrtho

Nice, good stuff.

The extinguisher takes damage from their own attack? That bold phrase should probably be reworded, as well..."For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals 1d6/class levels damage to everything in the area.

Well, I was thinking that it'd be a balancing factor. You'll notice they have Evasion and a good Ref save. That wasn't on accident.

Definitely make that code right.

What is this I mean I don't even omg. I'll fix it.

You should probably mention that the level adjustment doesn't come with it.

Faaaaaacepalm. I'll do that too.

Enervating darkness is really powerful.

Standard action #1: Snuff out light and gain disc.
Standard action #2: Enervating darkness.
Standard action #3: See #1.
Standard action #4: See #2.

It's probably not overpowered though. The at-will thing is kind of setting off an alarm in my head, but considering most combats will end after 3 - 7 rounds, being able to pump out a spell giving 1 negative level per round with a save is probably okay, even if it is against everything in 20 feet of darkness.

Eh, it's level 11. It's not like the casters are winning D&D or anything.

One thing I noticed--darkness is used a lot. Blind Fight could come in handy.

Considering the random Bonus Feat used to be Mindsight... until I realized that was stupid, and couldn't think of anything else to give them, it might become Blind-Fight.

I love brilliant annihilation, by the way. It's...brilliant.

Thanks. I tried pretty hard to figure out something worth that name (I came up with the name right after I came up with the name "Extinguisher").

OoPEACH: Is it Firefox making those squiggly red lines bigger?

I have no idea what you're talking about...?

[Temotei]

I have no idea what you're talking about...?

Type your username. In fact, typing username makes the squiggly too.

I think Firefox's recent update made the lines bigger. Maybe it's just my eyesight getting better again, though.

[arguskos]

Type your username. In fact, typing username makes the squiggly too.

I think Firefox's recent update made the lines bigger. Maybe it's just my eyesight getting better again, though.

I don't use Firefox.

[Owrtho]

For those that care, I added another Mist Form. I hope I can get enough of these done and balanced before the deadline (seeing as I seem to be doing around 1 to 2 a day, and balance is questionable at best). Also, better names would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also thinking of adding some dark vision progression (that would only function during the day), and an ethereal vision ability (lets you see the ethereal plane overlaid on the material, and only functions at night). Any thoughts on it?

Owrtho

[arguskos]

For those that care, I added another Mist Form. I hope I can get enough of these done and balanced before the deadline (seeing as I seem to be doing around 1 to 2 a day, and balance is questionable at best). Also, better names would be greatly appreciated.

I'll keep watching 'em, and see what (if anything) I can say.

I'm also thinking of adding some dark vision progression (that would only function during the day), and an ethereal vision ability (lets you see the ethereal plane overlaid on the material, and only functions at night). Any thoughts on it?

Owrtho

Honestly, I like it from a flavor perspective, but I'm not sure seeing the Ethereal Plane is actually useful in any way at all.

[Owrtho]

Honestly, I like it from a flavor perspective, but I'm not sure seeing the Ethereal Plane is actually useful in any way at all.

Well, as the ethereal plane mostly looks like the material plane, it would let you see the terrain regardless of lighting. Would also let you see ghosts or people trying to hide in the ethereal plane. Also would be handy for when you gain some later mist forms that let you force people into the ethereal plane for the purpose of then targeting them with things that can effect both planes (like force effects, or some later mist forms I plan to do).

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Well, as the ethereal plane mostly looks like the material plane, it would let you see the terrain regardless of lighting. Would also let you see ghosts or people trying to hide in the ethereal plane. Also would be handy for when you gain some later mist forms that let you force people into the ethereal plane for the purpose of then targeting them with things that can effect both planes (like force effects, or some later mist forms I plan to do).

Owrtho

Ok, the one I'll agree with is the last one. I can dig forcing people into the ethereal plane and/or using force effects on them. Go for it.

[Owrtho]

Added a preliminary version of the darkvision and ether sight (used umbral sight from the shadowcaster for the darkvision. Its grants darkvision as a supernatural ability instead of extrodinary). Also, I thought I'd mention you have a typo on your darkvision description. The first distance should be 30 feet I think.

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Added a preliminary version of the darkvision and ether sight (used umbral sight from the shadowcaster for the darkvision. Its grants darkvision as a supernatural ability instead of extrodinary). Also, I thought I'd mention you have a typo on your darkvision description. The first distance should be 30 feet I think.

Owrtho

...it is..? Did I jack it up? *goes off to check*

Oh dammit, I did. Fixed it. Thanks for the catch. Man, I'm just full of typos today.

[Owrtho]

Random extra pair of mist forms. You could now play up to level 9 taking only the highest level of mist form available (though I may decide later to change their levels depending on feedback for balance). Let me know how opinions run. Also, I somewhat wonder if I should perhaps split up ectoplasm into two mist forms (but then again the effects are somewhat similar, and most things that make ectoplasm don't).
Help with wording and/or formating is also appreciated.

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

I dig what I'm seeing so far, folks; let the work (and PEACHing) continue!

[Xzoltar]

Was going to do a Warlock-Incarnum Knight style character, but to keep BaB to Full im switching back to my previous idea of ToB-Incarnum Holy Knight.

I don't have time to do 5-6 new disciplines, so im gonna put only the level, name, type, effect like this : (only a example not yet done)

5th level
- Consecration [Boost] : You channel Celestial Energy around you in a 15ft Diameter that cause Holy damage equal to your class level for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma (minimum 1). You cannot have more than 1 consecration effect active at a time.