Fiddling with the Elite Array

[SpikeFightwicky]

This is in regards to using it for NPC characters. The elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is basically a pre-arranged 25 point buy. According to NPC advancement rules, NPCs who have levels in a class should be given the elite array without an increase to CR.

So if I decide to fiddle around with the point buy points (for example, making the array: 14, 14, 14, 12, 10, 9) to make it more suitable for the NPC, does this cause issues with the CR guidelines? It can mke the difference between a few stat boosts where needed, but that might be something the devs wanted to avoid.

Should there be any problems if I fiddle around to optimize the Elite Array, or is it more of a 'set in stone' kind of rule?

[Greenish]

Optimize if your players do.

[Kylarra]

The difference is so minor as to not be worth anything really.

[tyckspoon]

You changed the arrangement from +2 +2 +1 +1 +0 -1 to +2 +2 +2 +1 +0 -1. I can't think of a situation where an additional +1 total stat modifier is going to make enough of a difference to justify changing a CR, especially since the highest increase is still just +2. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Defiant]

The difference is so minor as to not be worth anything really.

Couple this with the fact that CR isn't an exact science, and you realize you can do anything you want.

Most experienced DMs estimate the actual CR of a challenge, since the ratings themselves are usually wrong.

[ericgrau]

This is in regards to using it for NPC characters. The elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is basically a pre-arranged 25 point buy. According to NPC advancement rules, NPCs who have levels in a class should be given the elite array without an increase to CR.

So if I decide to fiddle around with the point buy points (for example, making the array: 14, 14, 14, 12, 10, 9) to make it more suitable for the NPC, does this cause issues with the CR guidelines? It can mke the difference between a few stat boosts where needed, but that might be something the devs wanted to avoid.

Should there be any problems if I fiddle around to optimize the Elite Array, or is it more of a 'set in stone' kind of rule?

If your players roll, then use the elite array as-is. If your players use 25 point buy, then feel free to likewise re-arrange your NPC's stats. It's a slight power boost, ya, but the idea behind the elite array is to match what the PCs have. Heck, you could even give certain NPCs a 16 or an 18. Btw, you should only use the elite array for special NPCs. Normal ones should use the non-elite array (with a 13 high). They should also use NPC classes for that matter. The reason why some elite NPCs might still want that 15 is because every 4 levels they get a +1 to any stat. The 13 is less likely to be helpful except for some feats

[SpikeFightwicky]

Thanks for all the info/feedback! My players usually wonder how I come up with some modified monsters, and I have to be sure that all my numbers add up (sometimes when someone else DMs, they like to use some of my advanced or homebrew concoctions). I wasn't sure if playing around with the elite array is the kind of thing that can warrant rampant 'shenanigans' all 'round, though it seems the answer (much to my delight) is a resounding 'No!'.

[Sinfire Titan]

I use 17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 10 as the Elite Array. It's 43 PB for when I want to customize my minions.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Heh, my players would go into conniptions if they knew I was using that much PB. We usually agree on either 28 or 32, depending on what everyone feels. Though your Elite Array will do nicely for more important encounters.

[ericgrau]

If your players get 28 pb then your major NPCs should too. I'd start with something like 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8 and adjust if desired. Yeah, there are no odd numbers any more but, unlike rolled stats, that's typical on pb. And if you really need an odd number you can adjust it.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I find that odd numbers typically amount to wasted points on an NPC that'll never have the opportunity to bump them up, so the 28 point array works nicely.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I tend to run 32 points so generic NPC's (guards, grunts, etc) use the elite array while Lieutenant types would be 28 and full fledged rivals would be 32.


Remember SpikeFightwicky that NPC's get a stat boost every 4 levels just like PC's and certain feats have odd stat point requirements.
So a 4th level NPC fighter with
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 8
Can put his stat point boost into strength making it 16 and qualify for combat expertise and any of the feats that follow.

[Ormur]

Honestly I use the elite array for mooks and handwave the important NPC's to something similar to my player's stats which are pretty good due to generous rolling rules. I've even given casters 18 in their casting stats. It works out all right because until now I haven't been able to challenge them properly anyway. I might give some random passer by the standard array if that sort of situation came up.

[jiriku]

Since my players are using 32-PB on my current campaign, I use 17,14,14,12,10,8 as an elite array, with additional small bonuses to important NPCs or classed NPCs with weak classes. Generally anyone with BBEG status has a ticket to write their own stats, but I try to keep those stats within the realm of what's achievable for a highly optimized PC of similar level.