How does Vow of poverty work on Mounts?

[Mystic Muse]

okay, I'm wondering just How vow of poverty works on a Paladin mount. It's kind of hard to give what you don't have and Paladin mounts generally don't get a share of the treasure.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

I'm not sure you're allowed to keep a mount with VoP, as technically it's a possession.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I'm not sure you're allowed to keep a mount with VoP, as technically it's a possession.

How is it a possession? its an ally and friend summoned from the celestial realms. It just can't have a saddle or barding

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

How is it a possession? its an ally and friend summoned from the celestial realms. It just can't have a saddle or barding

Then being a male is not an option.
Also, I have yet to see a mount qualify for a companion since it's not bound by companion restrictions, and it's not an ally because it falls under mount.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Then being a male is not an option.

WHAT!?

Also, I have yet to see a mount qualify for a companion since it's not bound by companion restrictions, and it's not an ally because it falls under mount.

"a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil."
A paladin gets the service of the mount, its a loyal steed to serve against evil. That sounds like a companion to me. It may not be an animal companion like a druid or a ranger but its close enough.

According to the FAQ
A familiar, special mount, or animal companion isn’t a material possession, and thus a character with Vow of Poverty isn’t restricted from gaining the benefits of such creatures.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

WHAT!?



"a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil."
A paladin gets the service of the mount, its a loyal steed to serve against evil. That sounds like a companion to me. It may not be an animal companion like a druid or a ranger but its close enough.

According to the FAQ
A familiar, special mount, or animal companion isn’t a material possession, and thus a character with Vow of Poverty isn’t restricted from gaining the benefits of such creatures.

Then it doesn't affect the mount, and the only thing you have to worry about is the family jewels since you won't be allowed to buy a saddle.

[faceroll]

Then it doesn't affect the mount, and the only thing you have to worry about is the family jewels since you won't be allowed to buy a saddle.

The mount buys you a saddle.

But I think the OP means "can you give your mount VoP"?

[Mystic Muse]

slight miscommunication. I've seen people on here suggesting making the mount take vow of poverty. THAT's what I'm talking about.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Then it doesn't affect the mount, and the only thing you have to worry about is the family jewels since you won't be allowed to buy a saddle.

Now I get it.
You could probably get away with a blanket.(Native Americans used them instead of saddles), as your allowed some simple home spun clothing. VoP being intended for mature roll players. Denying the blanket so the male paladin suffers for riding his mount, sounds king of immature.


Edit: OK so giving a mount VoP.
No, the mount doesn't own possessions to begin with.

[Eldan]

It doesn't explicitly say that you have to have possessions to get VoP. So, theoretically, the mount could take the Vows. However, I'd think most DMs would bludgeon you with the BoED for that.

[Malificus]

Edit: OK so giving a mount VoP.
No, the mount doesn't own possessions to begin with.

Now the mount is simply making a solemn life-affirming vow to keep it that way.

[krossbow]

i sense an endless loop of followers with followers with vow of poverty.

[faceroll]

i sense an endless loop of followers with followers with vow of poverty.

An endless chain of suck.

[Mystic Muse]

to be fair, it doesn't suck so much when used on Paladin mounts since they don't get any money anyway.

[faceroll]

to be fair, it doesn't suck so much when used on Paladin mounts since they don't get any money anyway.

I think it's quite a clever use on a paladin mount. It adds nice bonuses. You could even get away equipping it, since it's the paladin's money being spent.

[Rainbownaga]

Note that part of the requirement of the vow of poverty is giving one's share of treasure to charity, and it specifies that you cannot deliberately reduce your share so as to benefit your team-mates.

Does the mount get a share of the treasure? Personally, I'd allow the feat providing the entire party agreed to give a share of the party's treasure to a charity of the mount's choosing.

Also the mount has to be and remain exalted, whatever that would mean

[PhoenixRivers]

I think it's quite a clever use on a paladin mount. It adds nice bonuses. You could even get away equipping it, since it's the paladin's money being spent.

Nope. The horse can't borrow the paladin's gear without losing the feat.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A mount should probably be wearing at least some gear provided by its rider, whether that rider is a paladin or not. Mounts are kinda squishy otherwise. That said, if the mount's intelligence is 3 or higher VoP can make sense, but it's kinda difficult to RP, since the mount really does need some concept of monetary values to give up. If the paladin took VoP too I'd have absolutely no problem with it.

[Rainbownaga]

Also note that while this may be fair for a paladin's mount, it should be clear that a druid's animal companion should never get this kind of cheese, even (and particularly) if they are awakened.

[faceroll]

Nope. The horse can't borrow the paladin's gear without losing the feat.

But it can drink his potions or ride on his magic carpet. Hrm.

[JaronK]

I'd probably only allow it if the Paladin had the same vow. That way there's not confusion as to how much should be in the mount's share. Of course, a Paladin with the vow would be rather weak, but I guess they could use a longspear.

Far nastier would be a Druid with this on his Animal Companion. Take whatever feats are necessary to make the companion good and intelligent, and there you go.

And then there's the supermount...

JaronK

[Mystic Muse]

Well, the only problem with the Paladin taking it is that it's a pretty subpar feat for them. I actually calculated it and if you'd be willing to just accept 10 for each of the resistances instead of 15 at level 20 you'll still have about 310,00 gold even if you somehow manage to spend 50,000 on consumables.

There are also very few exalted feats actually worth taking so the bonus exalted feats aren't really very good.

[faceroll]

I'd probably only allow it if the Paladin had the same vow. That way there's not confusion as to how much should be in the mount's share. Of course, a Paladin with the vow would be rather weak, but I guess they could use a longspear.

Far nastier would be a Druid with this on his Animal Companion. Take whatever feats are necessary to make the companion good and intelligent, and there you go.

And then there's the supermount...

JaronK

I think an Animal Companion with a headband of intellect could do it. It'd retain it's animal type, but have the requisite int score to have an alignment.

Would super mount with the vow be any better than just equipping it?

[Mystic Muse]

I think an Animal Companion with a headband of intellect could do it. It'd retain it's animal type, but have the requisite int score to have an alignment.

Would super mount with the vow be any better than just equipping it?

Yes, because while the feat isn't great it does give about the equivalent of 388,000 gold to the Mount. The mount doesn't get he same amount of Gold as a PC so giving it the equivalent of 388,000 is rather nice.

[2xMachina]

RAW, it works.

DMs generally won't allow it though.

[faceroll]

Yes, because while the feat isn't great it does give about the equivalent of 388,000 gold to the Mount. The mount doesn't get he same amount of Gold as a PC so giving it the equivalent of 388,000 is rather nice.

You'll see that the fellow I quoted said both mount & rider should have the feat. Also, supermount is like a 100 HD monstrosity. He would benefit more ftom 500,000 or 600,000 gp of items, while his rider uses the remainder to just not die.

Vow of Poverty shouldn't apply to animals at all.

Horses don't own the equipment used to ride them, nor the armor that protects them, nor the harnesses that allow them to pull wagons or carry cargo. All of those things are owned by the person who owns (or uses) the animal. People might refer to gear that are only used with/on an animal (my horse's saddle, my dog's leash, my cat's brush) as belonging to the animal, but this is a semantic convention, not an accurate description of ownership.

Bonuses should only be granted when the disadvantage actually means something. Animals don't get bonuses for not being able to speak, because they can't speak anyway. A horse shouldn't get a bonus for Vow of Poverty because horses don't own goods.

Paladin's don't ride animals. They ride magical creatures summoned from the plane of angels, gifted with sapience and blessed by their deity in their service of the righteous.

[Tinydwarfman]

Hmm... I was thinking of getting Celestial Companion for my VoP druid anyway, so this would make a very good addition. All I have to do now is give my companion in the current game a share of the treasure so there is some justification for it!

[JaronK]

I think an Animal Companion with a headband of intellect could do it. It'd retain it's animal type, but have the requisite int score to have an alignment.

Would super mount with the vow be any better than just equipping it?

Can't have the headband and the vow! And you can't Awaken animal companions. I think the Supermount is the way to do this. And I think it's better for two people to have VoP than to have normal WBL, though it's close in many ways. At least the mount can probably fly normally.

JaronK

[Quietus]

Honestly? I'd allow it, flat out. It's not game breaking to allow a Paladin's mount to have AC and resistances, and ... oh no, my horse has mind blank. And doesn't need to eat. I WOULD, however, rule that if the PALADIN falls short of Exalted status, his warhorse would be nudging him toward that - and if the Paladin did anything questionable (with a broad definition of questionable, to a point), the warhorse would leave him.

[Flickerdart]

Haha, now I want to play that...a Paladin with a Mount that provides moral guidance.