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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    mummy162's Avatar

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    Default [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    So, I was looking around Unearthed Arcana and found this. It makes casters even more powerful than they were already were, but as long as one of them is a cleric, all the meatshields of the party are equally more effective, since the cleric can use cure spells willy-nilly. Has anyone played this variant? Does it unbalance the game even more in the direction of full casters?

    Also, the Battle Sorcerer variant is REALLY cool with this rule.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Both the Recharge Magic and Spell Point variants make casters more powerful than standard Vancian. The former means that they never have to stop and rest (unless swapping out their chosen spells entirely) while the latter means that they can freely convert low-level spells into high-level ones.

    Both variants effectively turn all casters into spontaneous casters (SP moreso than RM) because they can choose on the fly how much of a given spell they'll need each encounter, rather than trying to predict it at the beginning of the day.

    Having said that, however, buffing the casters is only a problem if their players are likely to steal the spotlight. If they are in a supporting role, however, increasing the casters' flexibility gives them more freedom to use their talents improving the non-casters (through extra buffs, healing and battlefield control) while still being able to contribute directly.

    And if everyone is playing casters, this variant can help them function effectively at lower levels without feeling like one-trick ponies, especially RM. You'll just have to ramp up the difficulty later on.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    In a group of all casters it would be fun.


    It would be nice to use if a group was all casters and martial adepts too, since it would give casters the longevity that the ToB classes enjoy.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Doesn't the RM force you to either limit yourself to core or add a new recharge time to every non-core spell used? I am sure you could make one by comparing it to core spells, but that would be a PITA if you're using a lot.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Doesn't the RM force you to either limit yourself to core or add a new recharge time to every non-core spell used? I am sure you could make one by comparing it to core spells, but that would be a PITA if you're using a lot.
    Definitely true.

    But it's easy to understand why WoTC wanted to find a middle ground between either never recharging or waiting 2 hours to recharge all spells. If they went with the second option every group would hide after each encounter for 2 hours and then you'd be playing 4e instead of 3.5e.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Doesn't the RM force you to either limit yourself to core or add a new recharge time to every non-core spell used? I am sure you could make one by comparing it to core spells, but that would be a PITA if you're using a lot.
    It's a simpler process than you're making it sound. Just refer to the section titled "Recharge times for other spells." It's typically a function of their duration.

    RM can actually be more balanced than Vancian in a key way - it removes spell spammability, so players are forced to find multiple spells that can do the same thing if they want a repeatable effect. For example, while regular casting and spell point casting let you cast charm person on all the guards to get by them, recharge magic does not. So your players are forced to use Charm Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Charm Monster and Mass Suggestion to get by, for instance.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Recharge magic is a good thing. The day I first used it in my homebrew campaign is the day I started regretting not using it sooner, as it dispenses with the artificial limitation of 'one encounter per day' that you are forced to apply if you wish your spellcaster to feel useful during the session. Not to mention that it allows for a better flow of the session and makes a spellcaster truly fearsome.

    I use it now in combination with gestalt classes...

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    That sounds a bit extreme - you can definitely have more than one encounter per day with all three casting systems, unless that one encounter is ridiculously difficult and causes all your casters to expend their resources.

    What Recharge Magic can do that neither of the other systems can, is let casters recover ammunition on the run. In a campaign with time pressure ("you have 1 hour to interrupt the BBEG's deification ritual") where your players can't simply Rope Trick in the middle of the dungeon before the big fight, this can be a great way to keep the session flowing without making the casters feel like they need to save all their magic for the finale.

    Vancian and Spell Points can get around this limitation somewhat via Reserve Feats and items, however.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Recharge magic + shadowcraft mage = miracle every 1d6+1 rounds at higher lvs.

    Plus, past lv6, some spells' durations start exceeding their recharge time. Bull's strength would last 6 minutes and can be recast every 5...

    Just a few anomalies I noticed...

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Recharge magic + shadowcraft mage = miracle every 1d6+1 rounds at higher lvs.
    With a Vancian SCM, you can cast it several rounds in a row. With a Spell Point SCM, you can cast it all day long, stopping only to sleep.

    What you are pointing out is the brokenness of SCM, not the Recharge Magic variant. If anything, RM is harder to abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Plus, past lv6, some spells' durations start exceeding their recharge time. Bull's strength would last 6 minutes and can be recast every 5...
    So? It's not like it stacks.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Doesn't the RM force you to either limit yourself to core or add a new recharge time to every non-core spell used? I am sure you could make one by comparing it to core spells, but that would be a PITA if you're using a lot.
    Is it really that hard to figure out recharge times? Combat spells are all general, everything else is a minute, an hour, or several hours, as the DM deems appropriate.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Doesn't the RM force you to either limit yourself to core or add a new recharge time to every non-core spell used? I am sure you could make one by comparing it to core spells, but that would be a PITA if you're using a lot.
    Which is one of the things that makes the variant stupid. IMO, most Core spells should have the longer recharge time than the non-Core ones save for a select few.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Which is one of the things that makes the variant stupid. IMO, most Core spells should have the longer recharge time than the non-Core ones save for a select few.
    You can do exactly that, if you want - the section on non-core spells is explicitly a guideline, not a hard and fast rule.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    So? It's not like it stacks.
    I think he's more pointing out that you can keep it up indefinitely. IE, every wizard sort of becomes an incantatrix at that point.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Recharge Magic Variant

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I think he's more pointing out that you can keep it up indefinitely. IE, every wizard sort of becomes an incantatrix at that point.
    I hardly think free persistent bull's strength will break his game

    Anyway, I know you already know this Tyn, but the whole point of the variant is to make players stronger - comparing it to Vancian is meaningless. Rather, the DM should be scaling up encounters to account for everyone being fully buffed and healed between every fight. So now the fighter can be always flying and super strong, the rogue and bard can always be invisible, the cleric becomes an HP battery etc. Recharge Magic is for the PCs that want to attack the Drow capital city and bust some slaves free or something similarly epic. (small "e")

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