Proximity Traps and Search skill

[Soonerdj]

In my campaign (my first) I've grown past using higher level baddies against my party. They either destroy or are easily defeated which really kills the atmosphere and tension. So I'm taking a page from other DM's and using small, intelligent, well prepared enemies and so far it is working like a charm. I just have a few questions relating to traps.

1. If a trap is triggered by proximity e.g. Blast Disc (MIC) then how does the rogue use his Search skill to find it? Wouldn't it go off before he could even find it?

2. Are there any traps that can't be found, no matter how high the search check?

3. Any cool traps that reward ingenious thinking on the part of the PC's without punishing a specific character? (I feel bad for the bard in the group being the only one with a poor reflex save)

[Frozen_Feet]

1. Borrow a page from Stalker and have the rogue throw bolts small rocks ahead of himself to detect / set off the traps before they catch him.

[Curmudgeon]

I answered your question here.

[Soonerdj]

I answered your question here.

Yes thank you, I made this thread before I realized the question more appropriately belonged in the RAW thread. This thread should be considered answered. I apologize for the extraneous posting.

[Devils_Advocate]

Well, #3 really seems more like a discussion/opinion type question than a strict rules question. I think it's enough for a thread.

1. You don't have to enter a square to Search it. "You generally must be within 10 feet of the object or surface to be searched", according to the SRD. It doesn't explicitly say that you need a standard-issue ten-foot pole Search a square outside your reach, but I think that we can reasonably assume that.

2. Traps with a Search DC of 20 normally can't be found, though special means like the Trapfinding class feature and the find traps spell circumvent this. ... And that's enough. Unless you want an "I'm immune to your ability to overcome my immunity to your ability to overcome my immunity to ..." style arms race.

3. But the Bard class give a good Reflex save...

[Jack_Simth]

In my campaign (my first) I've grown past using higher level baddies against my party. They either destroy or are easily defeated which really kills the atmosphere and tension. So I'm taking a page from other DM's and using small, intelligent, well prepared enemies and so far it is working like a charm. I just have a few questions relating to traps.

1. If a trap is triggered by proximity e.g. Blast Disc (MIC) then how does the rogue use his Search skill to find it? Wouldn't it go off before he could even find it?

Nope. The trigger area is part of the trap. The rogue who's actively searching can very specifically locate a trap before it goes off. It's a class feature. No, don't ask how it works. Either the trigger is mechanical (in which case, he can definitely find the trigger, as it pretty much must be in touch range, and he's got 10 feet), or it's a magical trap (in which case, the phrase "it's magic" obviously applies).

Besides - if a someone made a trap that couldn't be found, the rogues and assassins of the world would soon assassinate the trapmaker, and pretty soon, there would no longer be any traps that couldn't be found....

2. Are there any traps that can't be found, no matter how high the search check?

See 2nd half of answer to 1. But you can make monkey traps (Tomb of Horrors: Green Face) that aren't so much traps as they are hazards.

3. Any cool traps that reward ingenious thinking on the part of the PC's without punishing a specific character? (I feel bad for the bard in the group being the only one with a poor reflex save)

Mix them with creatures that either benefit from, or are immune to, the trap going off; if you deal with the trap, the opponent is much easier. If you deal with the opponent, the trap is much easier. But the trap supports the monster and the monster knows enough to go set a high priority on the guy who seems to be ignoring him in favor of a particular spot on the floor.

I use a particular random dungeon generator that seems fond of throwing Inflict traps in amongst undead, Chain Lightning Traps among flesh golems, and so on.

[Traveler]

1. They can because rogues can find traps as a class skill and very few other classes can. In my campaigns, he (or she) can find mechanical traps. That again in my campaigns, rogues can't find magical traps that don't have mechanical or obvious parts like runes. Note, the magical unfindable traps are house rules that my players had before me. DC search for magical traps is DC 25 + spell level.

2. Again, the way my campaigns work, only magical traps are undetectable via standard search.

3. You mean like creative stuff? Use traps together. Some work together really well like pendelum blades with givaway floor sections. Here is one that I FOUND on a form about kobolds and how they can be pure evil with the right trap creativity.

Have a room or hallway. Post kobolds one one sides retreating/firing arrows. PCs on the other side. In the middle of the room have a hidden trap door, 15 by 15. Right in front of that place a trip line. If you are feeling evil, have invisiblility cast on the trip line. and add spikes to the trap pit under the trap door. Next have a 50-100 ft deep pit. Insert an gelatinious cube inside at the bottom. Once you hav done this here is what should happen. Party charges kobolds. Party makes spot checks for the trip line and trap door seperatly. So some may spot the wire, jump it, and land on the trap door. Others will spot the trap door and trip on the wire. While they are falling they fall onto the ooze, and make a reflex save from being engulfed and a fort save from being paralized while taking mild acid damage. So, chacters who fall prey to this trap may end up 60 ft in a pit, damaged from the fall and acid, paralized with a cube absorbing them.
NOTE. This trap will need some balancing party pending. I would only use this particular trap to teach PC to pay attention and never ever ever underestimate kobolds.