[3.5] The Unarmed Master build challenge - no magic, no equipment

[Kensen]

Imagine a vast, flat and featureless demiplane created for the sole purpose of unarmed one-on-one fights. The god who created the demiplane wanted the fights to be fair, so he created a permanent effect that negated all magical and psionic energies on the demiplane. He also removed all sorts of objects that could be used as weapons, and punished anyone who tried to use their clothes or food as weapons.

With these restrictions in mind, what classes and feats would you use? Details below:

Level: 10
Point-buy: 25
Equipment: None. You're considered to never have had any equipment, so you cannot qualify for prestige classes or other character options that require the use of any type of object.
Races: only PHB races, no variants of any kind are allowed.
Classes, feats and other options: You may pick base classes, prestige classes, variant class features and feats from any official book published by WotC. You suffer no multiclassing penalties; see Alignment below, however.
You may not use homebrew or third party material, 3.0 sources, anything from the Dungeon and Dragon magazines. Templates cannot be used. Character options that are in fact variant rules (such as flaws) cannot be used.
Roleplaying requirements: If a class or other character option has roleplaying requirements (such as the Fist of the Forest), you are automatically considered to fulfill the requirements.
Alignment: Pick any alignment; you're assumed to have had the same alignment all your life. Thus, you cannot have levels in classes with mutually exclusive alignment restrictions such as monk/barbarian or paladin/blackguard.
No magic: While you may take levels in classes that possess spellcasting ability, or (Su) or (Sp) abilities, you may not use or benefit from these abilities in any conceivable way. The entire demiplane is considered to be affected by a permanent antimagic & null psionics field. Even abilities that specifically state that they work in an antimagic field or null psionics field (such as a Mind Blade) do not work. Only deities and artifacts can defy the field, but that doesn't help you anyhow.

Rules clarifications and errata

One-on-one only: Even though animal companions, cohorts and other little helpers are usually (Ex) in nature, you cannot benefit from another creature or its abilities. The purpose of the fights is to test your unarmed fighting skills.

You can't talk your way out of it: The contestants are not allowed to talk (this is a new rule). The purpose of a fight is to fight, not talk! You can use the Intimidate skill, though, using your kiai/war cry, and any similar mechanics.

No beer: Alcohol is considered an object. You can take levels in Drunken Master if you fulfill the mechanical requirements, but you may not benefit from any ability that requires the use of alcohol.

The only way to modify your race is through feats and class features: If a feat gives you a tail, for example, it's ok to use that feat as long as you fulfill the prerequisites.

Only base classes and prestige classes are allowed: Racial classes or other classes that are neither base classes or prestige classes are not allowed. Racial substitution levels, however, are allowed.

Variant rules are not used unless otherwise mentioned: Campaign-wide variant rules such as fractional bab, taint, sanity, gestalt, flaws, etc. are not used otherwise mentioned. Naturally, you can use new mechanics introduced by a class or feat you use, such as maneuvers.

Psionic and exalted feats don't work: Because they're supernatural in nature.

BoED is not allowed: "True" 3.5 books only.

You can use non-lethal damage to defeat your opponent: Or ability damage, or anything that renders your opponent helpless and unable to recover from the condition within a reasonable amount of time.

[Eldariel]

...no beer for Drunken Master? *frowntown* Also, point buy, flaws, fractional BAB/Saves?

[Kensen]

As mentioned above, no flaws.

Point-buy: 25 (I'll add it to the first post)

Fractional saves/bab: This is a variant rule and thus it is not used. Assume that everything works as in a "vanilla" 3.5 game unless otherwise mentioned.

Beer: Hmm, good question. It's reasonable to assume that the god lets the fighters have fun every now and then, so the class is allowed, but you're not allowed to drink during a fight since you'd need a container and that's against the rules.

[Flickerdart]

Obviously you must capture and wield a demigod in each hand.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Unarmed Swordsage 20, or maybe Warblade 20 with a club or quarterstaff.

[TheCountAlucard]

I take it that since this is a flat and featureless plane, there's no sun or running water?

Obviously, vampire wouldn't be eligible for this challenge (since it has 8 LA and a minimum of 5 character levels, making it a minimum ECL of 13). Oddly enough, it would lose its Damage Reduction and ability to create spawn, but it'd keep its fast healing, blood drain, and Spider Climb (though if the plain is indeed flat and featureless, Spider Climb would probably be useless). Still, most of its weaknesses would be negated, considering nobody has any equipment (nobody could stake it or use a holy symbol... but then again, it also wouldn't have a coffin...).

[taltamir]

unarmed swordsage is your best bet.

[Runestar]

What about abilities which mimic gear, such as warforged's armour or dragonscale husk (variant from dragon magic)?

Or creatures possessing natural flight + reach?

I would go with warblade with superior unarmed strike. Or warblade1/monk2/warblade+5/swordsage2. Bab takes a dip but without gear, everyone's AC is going to stink anyways.

[Eldariel]

The "Only PHB races, no variants"-rule pretty much marks all the questions null and void.

[Kensen]

There's no sun or running water, but the entire demiplane is well-lit (save for the sleeping quarters, but that's not relevant here ) and the god sees to that everyone gets enough food and water every day. But vampire is a template, so no vampires.

No equipment -> no clubs or quarterstaffs. The only equipment you get is a set of simple clothes, and there are no trees to make weapons from. There are some stone buildings where the fighters rest and eat, but they're far far away from where the fights are held, so you cannot benefit from them either.

Character build level: 10 (not 20)

EDIT: No warforged characters, only PHB races. Not sure about the dragonhusk armor (I don't have the book at hand), it depends on whether it functions in an antimagic field and can be taken within the rules I outlined...

[Runestar]

The "Only PHB races, no variants"-rule pretty much marks all the questions null and void.

Reach can be obtained through feats/abilities (abberation limbs or that 5th lv warblade stance). Natural flight isn't so hard, quite a few templates grant it (not least the flight template from savage species).

I asked because I am not sure if templating a base race counts as making a variant or not.

Good point about the warforged.

Or what if I played a druid and use just his animal companion? Granted, the best I can get at lv10 is a cr5 animal, but they do good damage (dire lion lion can pounce, constrictor can grapple, and no normal PC can hope to beat it in grapple checks).

I take it that cohort-granting feats such as leadership are banned?

[TheCountAlucard]

But vampire is a template, so no vampires.

Well, it had already not qualified for your test; I was just pointing out its advantages/disadvantages. Rambling and whatnot, y'know?

[Kensen]

If you can get dragonblooded by taking a feat, it's ok. The flight template cannot be used for two reasons: templates are not allowed (as mentioned in my first post) and 3.0 sources are not allowed (also mentioned).

[Tinydwarfman]

Monk2/Psywar8 Tashalatora. Instant unarmed asskicking.

nvm, unarmed swordsage is your best bet.

[Runestar]

Dragontouched can be had at a feat, granting the dragonblood subtype.

This paves the way for improved dragon wings, which grants a limited form of flight (the upgraded version doesn't come until lv12, so its okay). Very feat intensive though.

Alternatively, 3 lvs in favoured soul lets you get claws (1d6) and dragontouched feat for free (variant in dragon magic).

Definitely a way of breaking this.

[Kensen]

Tinydwarfman: The usefulness of a psychic warrior in this exercise may be radically lessened by the permanent null psionics field (see first post).

Runestar: If you can get non-magical flight or reach by taking feats, it's allowed as long as you fulfill the prerequisites of the feats using only PHB races.

[Eldariel]

On such a limited pb and no Flaws, I can't really see a good option, except:

Spoiler

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Dwarf
16 Str (10 points)
8 Dex
20 Con (10 points + 2 level-ups)
8 Int
13 Wis (5 points)
6 Cha


1. Unarmed Swordsage 1
2. Barbarian 1
3. Unarmed Swordsage 2
4. Unarmed Swordsage 3
5. Unarmed Swordsage 4
6. Fist of the Forests 1
7. Fist of the Forests 2
8. Deepwarden 1
9. Deepwarden 2
10. Unarmed Swordsage 5

ACFs:
Whirling Frenzy Rage
Wolf Totem Barbarian
Unarmed Swordsage

Feats:
1. Great Fortitude
B. Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
3. Power Attack
6. Endurance
9. Adaptive Style


So you have:
To Hit: 8 BAB+3 Str+1 WF = +12 (Full Attack +12/+6)
Damage: 1d10+3
HD: 8+4d12+2d10+3d8+5*10 = 58.5+50 = 108
AC: 10 + 5 Con + 5 Con + 1 Wis = 21


Maneuvers:
Sudden Leap
Emerald Razor
Flashing Sun
Mountain Hammer (prereq retrained)
Wolf Fang Strike
Moment of Perfect Mind
Action Before Thought
Zephyr Dance
Counter Charge

Stances:
Stance of Clarity
Hunter's Sense
Roots of the Mountain

Skills:
Maxed out Jump & Tumble. I guess one could max out Concentration too, and pick up prerequisites.

In reality, the AC will be quite high. With Stance of Clarity and Uncanny Dodge (and thus ability to maintain Total Defense out of combat) and availability of Rage, he'll easily have 30 AC when it counts. His AC is also his Touch AC which helps quite a bit (and Uncanny Dodge means it's also his Flat-Footed AC).

His movement speed is 40' so he's relatively fast and with Roots of the Mountain, he can counter most specialists, be they grapplers, trippers or anything else pestersome. His real attack run can go up to +10/+10/+10/+5 if he so desires. Insightful Strikes: Desert Wind gives him small bonus to damage. Emerald Razor gives tools to hit AC-maxed opponents, though that's not really relevant on an arena like this. Zephyr Dance further allows pumping AC to 34.

Of course, the sad part is that his To Hit really sucks, but there's little to be done about that without losing...well, anything worth retaining. 25pb is just really harsh with no stat enhancers and no magical boosts. That said, I think 30 AC is sufficient against most opponents and it's probably actually worthwhile to fight defensively at 27 AC most of the time. Unless fighting the mirror, of course.

[Yora]

I would make a half-orc barbarian and optimize him for grapple. Then Rage and crush the opponent to death.

[Runestar]

Here's my sample warblade build.

Human warblade10 (using elite array for convenience)
Hp: 10d12+20 (85 average), AC: 12, touch12, flat-footed 12 (see wall of blades).

Stats:
Str: 16, Dex:14, Con:14, Int: 12, Wis: 10, Cha: 8
Saves: Fort+9, Reflex+6, Will+3.
Skills (choose 6 to max out): Concentration+15, Tumble+15, Jump+16, rest???
Feats: improved unarmed strike, adaptive style, superior unarmed strike, snap kick, stormguard warrior, improved initiative (b), ironheart aura (b)

Attack: +11/+11 (single attack + snap kick), +13/+8 (full attack), or +11/+11/+6 (full attack + snap kick), 1d8+3

maneuvers:
5th: elder mountain hammer (+6d6 damage), disrupting blow (DC18 will save on hit, unable to act for 1 round if fail).

4th: white raven's strike (+4d6 damage, foe is flat footed), lightning recovery (reroll one attack at +2 to-hit)

3rd: insightful strike (concentration damage as damage), bonecrushor (+4d6 damage)

2nd: mountain hammer (+2d6 damage), wall of blades (use attack roll in place of AC).

1st: none (all traded out)

General tactic: move+maneuver. The key is to simply slug it out. You should have the advantage on the damage front. Wall of blades can help turn that sure-hit into a miss, adaptive style lets you swap maneuvers as appropriate, snap kick gives you 2 attacks even when moving, disrupting blow can net you 1 extra round (since melees tend to have poor will saves).

[Kensen]

Pretty impressive build, Eldariel. How would he counter flying combatants who have reach or very mobile spring attackers?

[Eldariel]

Pretty impressive build, Eldariel. How would he counter flying combatants who have reach or very mobile spring attackers?

Spring Attacker...well, your charge distance is 80'. Chances are nothing on the arena has over 200' movement range and since it's featureless plain, that shouldn't be a problem. Sudden Leap adds extra ~10-20' distance moved as necessary.

Against a Spring Attacker, you should have the advantage in terms of versatility. Readying action to use some manner of Strike could also be rational.

Flying combatants with reach; well, readied actions, probably. Readied action to jump and hope they provoke or something. Honestly, just assume there are no flying combatants with reach and move on. 'cause unless you have reach of your own, you aren't beating them.


Hm, something a bit more offensively efficient:

Spoiler

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Half-Orc Warblade 6/Monk 1/Fighter 1/Warblade +2
Str 22 (16)
Dex 11 (3)
Con 14 (6)
Int 6
Wis 8
Cha 6


Feats:
1. PA
3. IBR
6. Shock Trooper
B. IUS, Improved Grapple or whatever
B. Snap Kick
9. Leap Attack

Attack bonus 9 BAB + 6 Str = +15. With Pouncing Charge, gives us full attack of:
+13/+13/+13/+7 for 1d6+6+18 each (or +17/+12)


Max out Jump and...yeah. I guess you can max out Concentration with your excess points.


Not doing maneuvers right now, Pouncing Charge, Rabid Wolf Strike, Sudden Leap, Wall of Blades and Lightning Recovery seem enough. Well, that's about it to be honest. Toss in some Diamond Mind counter, e.g. the Will-one and Roots of the Mountain and LEADING THE CHARGE and that's about it.

Lightning Recovery gives a slightly improved chance of hitting even tough-to-hit targets and having access to the usual Diamond Mind-, Stone Dragon- and Tiger Claw Strikes means your offense overall is rather respectable. Pity the To Hit has to be so low, but c'est la vie.


EDIT: Leading the Charge. +9 damage... Yeah, prolly worth it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Unarmed Swordsage 5/ Bear Totem Barbarian (Whirling Frenzy) 5 or something like that, get Jotunbrud, Aberration Blood: Flexible Limbs, Inhuman Reach, Deepspawn, and Starspawn. Be sure to get Crushing Weight of the Mountain. That gets 10 ft. natural reach, limited flight, and an obscene grapple modifier with Constrict, as follows:

+8 BAB
+4 Improved Grapple
+4 Size (Jotunbrud)
+2 Flexible Limbs
+2 Deepspawn
+4 Bear Totem 5 when raging
+6 Strength (16 base, +2 levels, +4 Whirling Frenzy)
= +30 Grapple modifier, gg

[Eldariel]

Races of Faerun is 3.0. Also, with Roots of the Mountain legal, single-handed Grapple-focus might be a bad idea. Though Starspawn + Aberrant Reach is pretty sick, even if it's only 4 turns. Of course, savvy opp can simply run for those 4 turns before you drop and then hit; Starspawn's lack of speed is appalling.

[Macrovore]

Has anyone discussed using Vow of Poverty? I think most, if not all, of those abilities are (ex). I know it kind of defeats the entire purpose of the exercise, but it's still technically within the parameters of the challenge. So, I propose to you:
Human Monk 1/swordsage 9, with vow of poverty. The monk level is to get better unarmed strikes and feats right off the bat. Depending on the feat load-out, you might be able to qualify for master of nine, but probably not (the feat requirements for that are annoying. even the sample npc doesn't even technically qualify).

[Tinydwarfman]

Has anyone discussed using Vow of Poverty? I think most, if not all, of those abilities are (ex). I know it kind of defeats the entire purpose of the exercise, but it's still technically within the parameters of the challenge. So, I propose to you:
Human Monk 1/swordsage 9, with vow of poverty. The monk level is to get better unarmed strikes and feats right off the bat. Depending on the feat load-out, you might be able to qualify for master of nine, but probably not (the feat requirements for that are annoying. even the sample npc doesn't even technically qualify).

There's no reson not to take monk 2 of you take monk 1. more bab, IL, and a free feat I think VoP was assumed banned, 'cos if it weren't it would be taken by everyone.

[Kensen]

Vow of Poverty is not banned. It appears in an official 3.5 book and it's prerequisites do not seem to violate the rules I have outlined. However, many of the benefits the feat grants are supernatural in nature and thus don't work on the demiplane.

AC Bonus - doesn't work
Bonus Exalted Feats - you get them, but you don't get any benefit from as they are supernatural in nature
Endure Elements - works but is useless since the demiplane is comfortably warm anyway
Exalted Strike - doesn't work
Sustenance - works but is useless since you get enough food anyway
Resistance - you get a +1 bonus on all saves, pretty good if your opponent has maneuvers that involve saves or something like that
Ability Score Enhancement - you get +2 on one ability, pretty good
Natural Armor - you get +1 on AC, quite good
Mind Shielding - it works but is largely useless
Damage Reduction - doesn't work

So basically for two of your precious feats, you get +1 on saves, +2 on one ability score, and +1 on AC. Very good, but not a no-brainer.

EDIT: Well, actually the book says that all exalted feats are supernatural... so I suppose VoP doesn't function within an antimagic field even though some of the benefits it grants are (Ex). Not sure though...

[LichPrinceAlim]

I would have said Warforged (from Eberron), but PHB only kinda kicks me in the groin. Because "technically" a Warforged Monk can have "fullplate" and not suffer for wearing armor ;3

[Lord Vukodlak]

In any event a monk still dominates this as their abilities for the most part are not super natural.

I would have said Warforged (from Eberron), but PHB only kinda kicks me in the groin. Because "technically" a Warforged Monk can have "fullplate" and not suffer for wearing armor ;3

Umm no,

Is a warforged considered to be wearing armor for the
purpose of using special abilities, such as a monk’s fast
movement?
The composite plating of a typical warforged doesn’t count
as armor. Certain warforged feats, such as Adamantine Body
(EBERRON Campaign Setting, page 50) specifically state that the
character is considered to be wearing armor, and thus would
limit use of such abilities.

[2xMachina]

Slight tangent, but would a VoP warforged (adamantine body) work? Still not belongings right? Or being outfitted with components/grafts.

[LichPrinceAlim]

AFB, so I didn't realise that...

Plus I dunno on the Warforged "upgrades" so I'm not the expert on that Ye Grande Olde Can 'O Wyrms