Assassin Build: Help is greatly appreciated

[ChakraChanter]

So I've tried playtesting and thought it was relatively good, but as always, your opinions are always good to hear. The Build consisted of 8 Swashbuckler/2 Rogue/10 Assassin (The reason for more than 3 levels of swash is for HP but that can be changed easily if given a better proposal). Feats somewhere with all the TWF, Weapon Familiarity (Elven) Wielding keen Elven thinblade and Elven lightblade. Daring Outlaw, and Telling Blow. Then that feat that allows you to apply dexterity on damage rolls, but it requires another feat because it requires a Shadow Hand stance iirc (not entirely sure). I thought Grey Elf was an ideal race but I'm sure there are other suggestions.

Assuming you have high Int and Dex, you will be outputting a plethora of damage (Insightful Strike) and on criticals, you add 10d6

[Sinfire Titan]

To be honest, Assassin isn't that good of a class. The Spell List is the best thing they have going for them, and even that isn't that potent (considering Artificers can get those same spells in Wands).

Rogues don't care about the damage die size of their weapons. Don't take Improved Weapon Familiarity, just dual-wield Lightblades (CW allows you to replace weapon familiarities, so you don't have to spend a feat). Alternatively, don't use Lightblades, and just wield Shortswords (same basic effect). It is very easy to set up for a Sneak Attack, making Telling Blow a wasted feat (post-errata, if the DM is house ruling in the pre-errata version by all means abuse it).

Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers make TWFing much more powerful. Try Rogue 4/Warblade 16 (still gets 9th level maneuvers, allowing Time Stands Still). Take Craven, the main TWFing tree, and Weapon Finesse. When Flanking, you get Int to either attacks or damage (can't remember).

Dex to damage is obtainable through Crossbow Sniper (or the version in the dragon Compendium, which was Errata'ed to be awesome by removing the massive BAB requirement). Take a look around, as there was a build a while back that wielded Heavy Crossbows and used Time Stands Still+Dancning Mongoose+TWFing to take a massive number of attacks/round. You can get Sneak Attack on all of those fairly easily with the right allies/spells (Grease, Glitterdust, Improved Invisibility). Your Rogue levels make UMD viable.

[alisbin]

well, i'd strongly recommend an odd number of rogue levels to optimize sneak attack. maxed bluff and improved feint (+ prereqs) would help a great deal as well for reliable terrible, terrible damage. i don't recall whether the feat that lets you do half sneak attack damage to sneak attack immune critters is epic or not, but if its not, get it, if it is, make sure you can get it at 21. i assume your getting wraithstrike as one of your assassin spells? get that and you can trade some dex for more int.

[Sinfire Titan]

well, i'd strongly recommend an odd number of rogue levels to optimize sneak attack. maxed bluff and improved feint (+ prereqs) would help a great deal as well for reliable terrible, terrible damage. i don't recall whether the feat that lets you do half sneak attack damage to sneak attack immune critters is epic or not, but if its not, get it, if it is, make sure you can get it at 21. i assume your getting wraithstrike as one of your assassin spells? get that and you can trade some dex for more int.

You're kidding, right? Skills may be easy to boost, but Feinting in combat is a horrible option.

[Zom B]

In a recent game, I pitted a crime syndicate's top assassin against the party. The assassin? Scout20 with dual hand repeating crossbows of speed, a prehensile grafted tail, and the travel devotion, rapid reload, crossbow sniper, and improved skirmish feat. For one minute of the day, the scout blips 60 feet and fires off 10 bolts, each dealing 7d6+1d4, every round.

[kentma57]

Some of my old builds:

V1: more powerful in the long run
Rogue 5/Assassin 2/Ninja Spy 2/Unseen Seer 2/Assassin 3/Ninja Spy 3/Unseen Seer 3
SA:10d6
Casts as: Assassin 10
Improved uncanny dodge at 7
improved evasion at 9
hide in plain sight at 16

V2: advances faster
Rouge 5/Assassin 2/Shadowdancer1/Ninja Spy 2/Unseen Seer 7/Ninja Spy 3
SA: 9d6
Casts as: Assassin 9
Improved uncanny dodge at 7
hide in plain sight at 8
improved evasion at 10

In a recent game, I pitted a crime syndicate's top assassin against the party. The assassin? Scout20 with dual hand repeating crossbows of speed, a prehensile grafted tail, and the travel devotion, rapid reload, crossbow sniper, and improved skirmish feat. For one minute of the day, the scout blips 60 feet and fires off 10 bolts, each dealing 7d6+1d4, every round.

Did that once but used a few hundred shuriken instead. Also they where bleeding shuriken...

And then there was this guy.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Some of my old builds:
Did that once but used a few hundred shuriken instead. Also they where bleeding shuriken...

And then there was this guy.

Where is subtle strike from? and am I right supposing that Assassin's Handbook is a third party book that includes assassin as a base class?

[the humanity]

I'd suggest fighter instead of swashbuckler, same dice, more feats.

now shadowdancer would prove very useful with assassin I think also. maybe even better than rogue.

the problem with most assassin builds I made was they always lasted maybe 5 rounds in a full on brawl, which, in a party of fighters, happens all the time. so, I have found a few interesting options-
splash to barbarian. hit and run with the 10 feet extra, then hide in plain sight somehow.
javelins in a liquidproof sheath filled with a lot of weak poison. they gotta roll a one sometimes. (not suggested for the poor)
abuse invisibility.
abuse blink.
abuse fly.

I'd say taking levels in bard, barbarian, and shadowdancer would make my ideal assassin type.

[Geiger Counter]

If you want to play assassin you should join the PrC as soon as possible. If you want more HP just take improved toughness (CW). If you are going high dex/low strength go rogue 2/swashbuckler 3 with twin keen kukris. If you want to play a high strength assassin I suggest rogue 3/ranger 2, this works well with telling blow and a keen double bladed scimitar. Then take all other levels in assassin. If you want a good assassin it's vital you have the spells from the complete adventurer. You can take practiced spellcaster (CAr) to improve your caster level by 4.

Edit: The best assassin race IMO is the changeling.

[Optimator]

I think the OP's build is perfectly playable. Aside from a few feat choices I think it would make a memorable and fun character to play. If it fits the character, snag the Craven feat from Champions of Ruin. Combining that with Shadow Blade (and ostensibly the Island of Blades or Assassin's Stance stances) and Insightful Strike will make for good times in melee. A late (late enough to get a 3rd level stance with your second level of Swordsage. That means taking it at level 9 and 10 usually) 2-level dip into Swordsage does WONDERS for a dual-weilding Rogue-ey fighting type. Wonders, I tell ya.

Dungeonscape has the alternate class ability to get half-sneak-attack vs opponents you're flanking in exchange for trap sense (oh noes!). You would have to be a 3rd level rogue to get it though.

Yeah, ignore feinting. Just rely on flanking (It appears you're going for a dual-weilding blender-type) or Hide In Plain Sight. Also, a wand of Grease may help you out from time to time, though not perfectly reliable and still costing a standard action (usually).

I actually really like the Assassnin class. Both Uncanny Dodge and it's Improved version, Hide in Plain Sight, good spell list, and Sneak Attack advancement. Not sensational, but good for a lot of characters and certainly above average compared to a lot of the other weirdness out there. I just wish it got 6 skill points per level. I guess that's the price for getting access to spells.

Ignore the humanity's advice.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Does assassin grants Hide in plain sight?... I don't remember.

[Geiger Counter]

Does assassin grants Hide in plain sight?... I don't remember.

yes, at 8th level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I had a build which was mildly effective...

Rogue3/Spellthief1/Warlock4/Swordsage2/Nightsong Enforcer1/Bloodclaw Master2/Master Thrower1/Invisible Blade...

Basically: I can get my Sneak Attack dice on you, in any situation. With Master Thrower, I can throw my daggers and get sneak attack. With Swordsage, I get Dex to Damage from Shadow Blade, better Flanking ability with Island of Blades, and Assassin's Stance for when I don't need to worry about Flanking.

Warlock is for the following reasons:

1) Eldritch Glaive. A touch attack makes things much easier.
2) Darkness as a SLA. Because it grants concealment, thus can make a Hide check.
3) Devil's Sight. Because concealment negates SA, so ignoring it makes for a fun combo.
4) Take 10 on UMD checks
5) +2d6 Eldritch Blast, which I can sneak attack with

Not bad for a 4 level dip.

The build can end however you want, with as much SA as you can stack on.

[ChakraChanter]

I'd obviously take levels in swashbuckler because of Instightful Strikie, further levels would give more HP and higher BAB (Improved Toughnes does sound nice but I believe I'm low, or out of feats) and because of Daring Outlaw, I would have 10d6 sneak attack.

I want all ten levels in the assassin prestige class. (My DM is helping the Death Attack to become more effective)

How can I gain proficient with the elven thinblade without the feat?

The Feat are so far: Telling Blow, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Daring Outlaw, Shadow Blade, Martial Study (Clinging Shadow Strike)

Any race good for Int and Dex? I have choosen the Grey Elf.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Any race good for Int and Dex? I have choosen the Grey Elf.

Tiefling, outsider, bonus to Int, Dex, and penalty to charisma, if you want to avoid the LA +1 go lesser tiefling (PGtF)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd obviously take levels in swashbuckler because of Instightful Strikie, further levels would give more HP and higher BAB (Improved Toughnes does sound nice but I believe I'm low, or out of feats) and because of Daring Outlaw, I would have 10d6 sneak attack.

And no possible way to apply said sneak attack. Applying it is more important than having it.

The Feat are so far: Telling Blow, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Daring Outlaw, Shadow Blade, Martial Study (Clinging Shadow Strike)

Any race good for Int and Dex? I have choosen the Grey Elf.

Trust me, Swashbuckler is a TRAP for this build. Get rid of Swashbuckler, which means dumping Daring Outlaw. Get a couple levels of Swordsage, which drops Martial Study and Martial Stance (Because you need a Shadow Hand *STANCE* for Shadow Blade to work). It also gives you things like Pouncing Strike, so you can make a full attack on a charge, to max out your damage output in the surprise round. Then a couple more levels in Bloodclaw Master, so you can max out the offhand damage bonuses from TWFing. That alone is worth more than every level of Swashbuckler combined.

Plus you can grab things like Island of Blades, for easier flanking, Assassin's Stance, for more SA when you don't need to flank easier, and Sapphire Nightmare Blade, for a flat-footed attack which... grants SA.

Then the rest of the levels can be used to tweak out your sneak attack progression further, if you like.

[Geiger Counter]

Tiefling, outsider, bonus to Int, Dex, and penalty to charisma, if you want to avoid the LA +1 go lesser tiefling (PGtF)

You could just buy off the LA with unearthed arcana.

[ChakraChanter]

Ok, well on p.30 ToB it says manuever. I didn't look at the in-depth explanation

To correct that, change to Martial Study(Island of Blades). Telling blow allows you to apply SA to damage whenever you achieve a critical. You can also apply SA when opponents are flanked (though I assume all of you know that), so I don't understand why I can't apply it.

I really don't want to dip into Swordsage but I feel you will convince me otherwise.

[gorfnab]

Wildshaping Mystic Ranger 12/ Swordsage 2/ Telfammar Shadowlord 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order feat and either the Dark Creature Template or Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. "A stray cat came out of nowhere and just killed the mayor!" Or just Mystic Ranger 12/ Swordsage 2/ Telfammar Shadowlord 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order feat and either the Dark Creature Template or Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis for the Two Weapon Fighting chain and Pouncing. Shadow Blink (swift action) + Shadow Stride (move action) + Shadow Jaunt (standard action or Dimension Door) + Shadow Pounce + 17 BAB + TWF chain = 21 attacks per round. Not too bad for an assassin.

[Ashiel]

As far as the Assassin prestige class goes, I would recommend picking up the Ability Focus feat from the SRD. It's listed under the Monster Feats but you can qualify by having an ability that allows a saving throw - that's not a spell (spell-like and supernatural abilities are fair game though). So Ability Focus (Death Attack) can help you pump an extra +2 into the save DC for that ability.

Also don't forget that assassins can make clever use of both their spells and use magic device. Be tricky, and resourceful. Grab a ring of invisibility for kicks. Otherwise, follow most of the tricks you would use with standard rogues.

[Kaiyanwang]

IMHO, Assassinc can be good, but you must be clever in the choice of weapons (blurstrike maybe?) and spells.

With spell compendium, Cscoundrel and complete mage, Assassin's arsenal increased a lot.

[Draz74]

Gray Elf Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Assassin 5 / Bladesinger 10 is a pretty decent build. Which is fun, since Bladesinger normally reeks of suckitude.

The Craven feat and Spell Compendium spell selections are important elements. Daring Outlaw, on the other hand, isn't worth it on this build.