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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    I don't want to be a hellfire warlock... are there any other good or cool PrCs for warlock?
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    I don't want to be a hellfire warlock... are there any other good or cool PrCs for warlock?
    Eldritch Disciple is pretty strong. I'm also quite fond of Unseen Seer, but qualifying for it can be a bit persnickety.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    i have played eldritch disciple... for most of your career you are way too weak. And you lose lots of warlock levels to meet the requirement... you can hedge it towards cleric to only lose 2 cleric levels, but that means you lose even more warlock levels.

    I'd prefer one that doesn't lose any warlock progression.
    thanks for the suggestions though...

    where is unseen seer from?
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    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage. For future queries of this sort, this is a good resource. (It's spell search is lacking, but that's why you go here.)

    Before someone beats me to it, an apparently popular class combo is Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3. The entries all work out if planned out properly, and it certainly sounds pretty powerful once Ur-Priest gains steam.
    Last edited by Kosjsjach; 2010-03-11 at 11:32 PM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    mmm... ur priest is very fitting for a warlock... and its easier to reach the min reqs with it then with a plain old cleric thanks to SL = CL on it...
    i also love the idea thematically...
    doesn't work too well for me though since they must be evil and I don't do evil. thanks for the suggestion. Plus you still lose warlock progression which I don't want to do.

    I looked over unseen seer... it doesn't seem to work for warlocks since its requirement is that you have arcane scrying. it also doesn't advance the eldritch blast. Am I missing something?

    I was looking more for a warlock PrC where you remain an actual warlock. that is, you don't sacrifice your blast or your invocations progression.
    Thank you for that link, I looked up warlock PrCs and I found enlightened spirit from CM60... which sucks really.
    Interestingly, eunuch warlock from OA38 is not a warlock, but a wu jen/sorc PrC that utterly and totally sucks (free permanent empower/maximize spell on 3/2 spells... but its a 0/10 caster level class with the "feature" of raising your max SL at level 5 and level 10... so a wu jen 9 (can cast 5th level spells) who has taken 10 levels in eunich warlock, instead of having 9th level spell as a 19th level caster, has a 5th level spells + 0 6th and 7th level spells (aka, bonus from high int spells only for those levels). and still CL9 if I am not mistaken... instead of just getting 9th level casting by now... this is really stupid. At least they could have made it a 4/10 CL progression instead of this weird feature.

    So anyways, it seems that there simply aren't any full progression warlock PrCs with the exception of hellfire warlock... which I don't want...

    Speaking of hellfire. I just read it and it explicitly says that if you do not have a con score or are immune to con damage you can NOT use its con draining abilities... so how exactly is the binder trick supposed to work?
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-12 at 12:00 AM.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Binding Naberius doesn't make you immune or even resistant to con damage. You take every point of it.

    You also just so happen to heal it at a rate of 1 point per round. But you take every point of con damage... for a while.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Binding Naberius doesn't make you immune or even resistant to con damage. You take every point of it.

    You also just so happen to heal it at a rate of 1 point per round. But you take every point of con damage... for a while.
    ah, that makes sense. Sounds pretty damn awesome combo actually.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    The binder trick works because the vestige doesn't prevent you from taking damage, it just heals it in a hurry. Some DM's drop the ban-hammer on it out of principal though. As for PrC's that advance warlock, there aren't many that advance warlock specifically, but there are at least a handful of classes that have the "arcane spellcasting level +1" class feature that warlocks can qualify for. Honestly though, most of those aren't terribly good. You're generally better off just sacrificing a level of warlock for sorc/wizard and using early entry cheese to get into one of the sorc/wizard PrC's and using that to advance your warlock abilities. It works because of the clause in the +1 spellcasting class feature's description that says if you have more than one arcane spellcasting class, pick one for the class to advance. Again, some DM's will drop the ban-hammer on sheer principal for this.

    Edit: Partially ninja'd.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-03-12 at 12:08 AM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    thanks for all the info guys...
    The binder 1 (nebarius)/warlock X/hellfire warlock 3 trick is really nice.
    the ur priest route is also pretty cool.

    I think I will just stick to a vanillalock though. its such a cool class, its a real shame there aren't more PrCs out for it.

    You're generally better off just sacrificing a level of warlock for sorc/wizard and using early entry cheese to get into one of the sorc/wizard PrC's and using that to advance your warlock abilities.
    would that advance the Eldritch blast?
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Referring to those classes...

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    would that advance the Eldritch blast?
    Yes, yes they're meant to. If you get a level that's considered "+1 to arcane spellcasting", you progress your Eldritch Blast damage and your acquisition and character level of invocations (including, IIRC, access to Lesser/Greater/Dark invocations), which is the main gist of the Warlock anyways.

    It's not as bad as Dragonfire Adept, which gets unfairly boned because it gets less invocations and because the breath effects don't count as invocations but as class abilities. Being treated as Dragonblooded no matter what doesn't help that much either (and it cannot access the classes that directly benefit Warlock without some homebrewing).
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    You can get into Sentinal of Bharrai (BoED) without too much fuss, just a couple of burned feats. This allows you to turn into a bear. At will. With 10/10 casting, worded such that it applies to warlocks. Also a bunch of other goodies.

    The downside is that you have to be exalted. Still, you're at least an exalted bear.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    You can get into Sentinal of Bharrai (BoED) without too much fuss, just a couple of burned feats. This allows you to turn into a bear. At will. With 10/10 casting, worded such that it applies to warlocks. Also a bunch of other goodies.

    The downside is that you have to be exalted. Still, you're at least an exalted bear.
    BoED p69
    and this is freaking AWESOMENESS PERSONIFIED!
    I love the class... I totally want a warlock sentinal of bhari for my next warlock!
    plus... bear cavalry :P
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-12 at 02:36 AM.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    You could try Eldritch Theurge. Splash 1 arcane spellcasting class (probably sorcerer), and grab precocious apprentice to qualify. You only lose 1 warlock level for tasty arcane goodness, the best of which is probably the ability to cast any area spell, centred on an enemy that you blast.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    few to no lost caster levels, min multiclassing

    Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED) 10/10 casting
    Swanmay* (BoED) 9/10 casting
    *DM approval, resticted to Rangers or Druids as only source of Wild Empathy but Warlocks can pick it up with an invocation
    Daggerspell Mage (CAdv) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting
    Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting
    Enlightened Fist (CArc) lose 1 level to qualify, 8/10 casting
    Wildmage (CArc) 10/10 casting
    Mythic Exemplar (CChamp) 8/10 casting
    Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp) 5/5 casting
    Eldritch Disciple (CMage) lose 3 levels to qualify, 10/10 casting (for warlock)
    Eldritch Theurge (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 10/10 casting
    Wild Soul (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
    Aracnamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
    Demonbinder (DotU) must be drow, 9/10 casting
    Hellfire Warlock (FC 2) 3/3 casting
    Master of Shadow (ToM) 9/10 casting
    Frostmage (Frostburn) lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
    Fiend Blooded (HoH) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
    Tainted Scholar (HoH) 10/10 casting
    Dracolexi (RoD) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
    Dragonheart Mage (RoD) lose 1 level to qualify, 8/10 casting
    Ruathar (RotW) 3/3 casting
    Sandshaper (Sandstorm) 8/10 casting
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    you can qualify, but lose more casting

    Disciple of Asmodeus (BoVD) 6/10 casting
    Acolyte of the Skin (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Green Star Adept (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Mindbender (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Enlightened Spirit (CMage) no casting, but adds EB damage and some invocations
    Dragonslayer (Draco) 5/10 casting
    Platinum Knight (Draco) 5/10 casting
    Talon of Tiamat (Draco) 5/10 casting
    Walker in the Waste (Sandstorm) lose 3 levels to qualify, 8/10 casting
    Last edited by AbyssKnight; 2010-03-13 at 12:27 AM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Ruathar (RotW) is an excellent PrC for Warlocks - it is only 3 levels long (3/3 casting), nature-themed (you're basically an Elf-friend), easy as pie to qualify for and gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills. This is a great lead-in to Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai.

    Child of Night (ToM) requires some wonky invocations to qualify for, but makes you creepy as hell.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-03-12 at 11:59 PM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    You can go Eldritch Disciple and only lose 2 warlock levels (and still get 9th level divine casting).

    Warlock 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

    You take the Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) feat to offset the Con loss. It means you're not taking a level in binder, but it does burn another feat.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You can go Eldritch Disciple and only lose 2 warlock levels (and still get 9th level divine casting).

    Warlock 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

    You take the Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) feat to offset the Con loss. It means you're not taking a level in binder, but it does burn another feat.
    Warlock doesn't qualify for Ur-Priest at level 5. They lack the base fortitude save, which is part of why a dip in Binder is recommended. (The fact that it provides a RAW-uncontestable way to counteract the Con loss is a bonus.)
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Thanks you very much for the list. Lemme read through them and write my opinion of each for anyone who is considering them for his warlock (also, to get people to correct me on any mistake I make)

    Daggerspell Mage (CAdv) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting - this one absolutely sucks and not worth the level loss, heck, even if it was 10/10 casting its not worth losing the basic warlock class features over these crap features.

    Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting - the 2 lost levels hurt, but the class has really awesome abilities, is thematically appropriate too. Also synnergizes well with warlock, since warlock gets special crafting ability (emulate any spell) and the blood magus gives him a humonculos familiar, potion crafting, and scroll crafting. (craft a scroll of powerful cleric / wizard spells, likewise with potions).

    Enlightened Fist (CArc) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting - the 1 level lost to qualify is a single level monk dip (you can do it without a monk dip by taking stunning fist the hard way, aka prereq: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.). The casting is actually 8/10 (1st and 6th level do not progress casting).
    looking at the abilities, they utterly suck. Not worth it over base warlock even if it was a 10/10 class with no monk 1 prereq. things like "convert a spell to 1HP per spell level" or "convert a ray ranged touch attack into a regular touch attack" (and no, it doesn't improve the action economy)

    Wildmage (CArc) 10/10 casting - worse HD, saves, and BAB than warlock. Much worse class features. The features are basically "take magic, make it unreliable"... and it doesn't even hedge the bets in the wildmage's favor, the closest it gets to it is having its CL be -3+1d6 on all spells cast. Which averages out to a +0.5 (since the average of 1d6 is 3.5); but is unreliable and warlocks don't care.
    Immunity to confusion and insanity (level 6) is one of their only two useful abilities, so is rolling twice and selecting the better result when using a random item (but those are so rare I have never used one) @ level 3. both don't justify the class.
    Everything else utterly sucks about this class, even compared to regular wizards. Wildmages are a nerf to any caster ever to exist; especially so a warlock.

    Mythic Exemplar (CChamp) 8/10 casting - a confusing class, as it is 6 different classes in one (you only get to choose one).
    4 are 5/10 casting. 2, imdastri or ktolemagne are 8/10 casting. Imdastri advances divine casting, ktolemagne arcane casting... So for an arcane warlock, only ktolemagne mythic exemplar is worth looking at; the rest of the review of this class will assume you chose ktolemagne.
    same BAB, worse saves (good will, bad fort and ref). lose 2 caster levels.
    at level two you gain a +5 sacred onus on Concentration, Decipher cript, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellraft checks. level 4: +4 insight to int for 1 round a day. 6th level, once per day, cast identify with no material component cost. @8th level, gain SR = 10+CL, for one round a day. level 10: you may spontanously convert any spell you have prepared for a divinition spell of a lower level already in your spellbook (useless for a warlock).
    The abilities here are not all bad, but the warlock base abilities are better. Do not under any circumstances take 10th level here, since you lose the second caster level on 10th level for a benefit that doesn't apply to warlocks anyways. 9 levels means 8/9 casting instead of 8/10 casting.

    Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp95) 5/5 casting - wow, actually considers warlocks as a possibility. advance casting and turning (N/A for warlock), grants lore at first level, and grants a power of choice every level. Most abilities you chose from are not impressive (which are basically, +1DC for very specific spells, or very specific targets), but one is godly.
    You can get the ability to grant fast healing X to ANY summoned creature for duration of summon (X = CL/3 to max of 5 @ CL15). Also there is +1 vs SR and dispel checks. one gives +2 level for turn attempts and +1DC vs undead.
    This is godly class for clerics, but I don't see the benefit to warlocks, as warlocks don't summon, have turning, or get cleric domains.

    I will do the rest later at a different post.

    Eldritch Disciple (CMage) lose 3 levels to qualify, 10/10 casting (for warlock)
    Eldritch Theurge (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 10/10 casting
    Wild Soul (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
    Arcanamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
    Demonbinder (DotU) must be drow, 9/10 casting
    Hellfire Warlock (FC 2) 3/3 casting
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not Good Warlock PRCs- you can qualify, but lose alot of casting

    Acolyte of the Skin (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Green Star Adept (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Mindbender (CArc) 5/10 casting
    Enlightened Spirit (CMage) no casting, but adds EB damage and some invocations
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-13 at 12:22 AM.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Alright, I made it through all my non-setting specific books.

    Just another note, I took out the "Good Warlock" and "Not Good Warlock" titles, as all I was looking for was a) if multiclassing was needed to enter and b) loss of casting.

    This means I didn't compare BAB, saves, skills, or evaluate the class features much. So take the list with a grain (or pile) of salt, since some classes may not actually benefit a warlock much over just staying a warlock.

    Oh, and the comment that "Wild Mage is a nurf to every caster ever" is totally not true. Doesn't really help Warlocks, but with Practiced Caster or a PrC that gives Spell Power you are looking at worse breaking even and usually getting a CL boost.
    Last edited by AbyssKnight; 2010-03-13 at 12:26 AM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    It's possible to get 9th-level divine spells and Dark Invocations (well, one) without using Ur-Priest:

    Cloistered Cleric 3 (Divine Magician ACF from CM)/Warlock 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/MT 5

    (Divine Magician gives you arcane spells, allowing you to qualify for Mystic Theurge later in your career to finish the build.)

    Benefits:
    - Spells as Cleric 17 (9ths)
    - Invocations as Warlock 17 (1 Dark, 8d6 EB)
    - Unlike Ur-lock builds, doesn't have to be evil - useful if you want to use ED's Healing Blast.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssKnight View Post
    Alright, I made it through all my non-setting specific books.

    Just another note, I took out the "Good Warlock" and "Not Good Warlock" titles, as all I was looking for was a) if multiclassing was needed to enter and b) loss of casting.

    This means I didn't compare BAB, saves, skills, or evaluate the class features much. So take the list with a grain (or pile) of salt, since some classes may not actually benefit a warlock much or just staying a warlock.
    certainly... your list helped me greatly focus my search. I can now read each and evaluate it for warlock specifically, some of them are quite good for warlocks, other are good for other classes. I don't mean it as a devaluation of your effort, but rather, a continuation in building upon the work you did.

    Cloistered Cleric 3 (Divine Magician ACF from CM)/Warlock 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/MT 5
    you could, but you are going to suck for most of your career, i made one... from level 3 onwards you get progressively weaker. You only start catching up at level 8 (your first dual progression class, eldritch disciple is 10/10 warlock 9/10 cleric progression). But when I say start catching up, I mean gain more power per level, you will still be levels behind on warlock and cleric casting, making you ineffective at both. Your EB damage is crap, you invocations are behind, your cleric casting is behind...
    If anything, it makes more sense to go cloistered cleric 4/warlock 1/edlritch disciple 10/MT 5. That way you are only 2 caster levels behind on cleric with some warlock sprinkled in for fun. You still get dark invocations, only at level 20 instead of 19. but then you are mostly a cleric, not mostly a warlock.

    check out this character I made: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZ...2NmczZzg&hl=en

    Also, it didn't occur to me before the warlocks will qualify for MT... but I see now how they would.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-13 at 12:34 AM.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Ur-locks don't need to be evil, just play a priest of a dead god.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Chameleon 2 seems to be popular to use your floating feat to craft magic items.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    CCleric 4/Warlock 1 is indeed the standard way to build this - I was just trying to squeeze that extra 1d6 EB out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    Ur-locks don't need to be evil, just play a priest of a dead god.
    Yes they do - Ur-Priest has "any Evil" as an alignment requirement. The dead god part is because Ur-Priests can't worship a deity, but ED's need to.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-03-13 at 12:48 AM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssKnight View Post
    few to no lost caster levels, min multiclassing

    Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED) 10/10 casting
    Swanmay* (BoED) 9/10 casting
    Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting
    Aracnamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
    Master of Shadow (ToM) 9/10 casting
    Sandshaper (Sandstorm) 8/10 casting
    Good list.

    I'm suddenly much more interested in playing a Warlock.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Ruathar (RotW) is an excellent PrC for Warlocks - it is only 3 levels long (3/3 casting), nature-themed (you're basically an Elf-friend), easy as pie to qualify for and gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills. This is a great lead-in to Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai.

    Child of Night (ToM) requires some wonky invocations to qualify for, but makes you creepy as hell.
    Ruathar (RotW122) - same BAB and HD as warlock, different saves but still 2 good saves. 3/3 casting is good. Very thematically appropriate, especially going into Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai as you said.
    The abilities however are:
    LVL1: elves magically recognize you are one and are thus are friendly by default unless they see you do something evil.
    LVL1: get one time gift of ~1000gp item.
    LVL2: Low light vision
    LVL2: Elven keen senses gives racial bonus +2 to spot search listen (stacks with existing keen senses if already an elf)
    LVL3: +1 sacred bonus to attack and saves while outside, aboveground, at night.
    LVL3: Live 50% longer

    Basically, the abilities utterly suck. all knowledge skills is useful though; especially as prereqs for bharrai. While it is easy as pie to qualify for, you need BAB6 (warlock 8), or any skill 9 (level 6), or 3rd level casting (EB @ level 6, there is no least invocation of 3rd level equivalence; I just looked through every single least invocation in the book, and you get lesser in level 6 as well).. so basically, you need to be warlock 6 before qualifying. While bharrai requires you to be level 5 only (but you need an alternative source of knowledge nature). if you don't have a source for know nature, you can take this at level 7, and bharrai at level 8-18. because straight warlock can't take bharrai until he is warlock 13 due to the knowledge nature 8 requirement
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-13 at 01:13 AM.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Warlocks only have one good save, Will. Why do people keep referring to them having two?
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    Ruathar (RotW122) - same BAB and HD as warlock, different saves but still 2 good saves. 3/3 casting is good. Very thematically appropriate, especially going into Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai as you said.
    The abilities however are:
    LVL1: elves magically recognize you are one and are thus are friendly by default unless they see you do something evil.
    LVL1: get one time gift of ~1000gp item.
    LVL2: Low light vision
    LVL2: Elven keen senses gives racial bonus +2 to spot search listen (stacks with existing keen senses if already an elf)
    LVL3: +1 sacred bonus to attack and saves while outside, aboveground, at night.
    LVL3: Live 50% longer

    Basically, the abilities utterly suck. all knowledge skills is useful though; especially as prereqs for bharrai. While it is easy as pie to qualify for, you need BAB6 (warlock 8), any skill 9 (level 6) 3rd level casting (EB @ level 6, there is no least invocation of 3rd level equivalence; I just looked through every single least invocation in the book, and you get lesser in level 6 as well).. so basically, you need to be warlock 6 before qualifying. While bharrai requires you to be level 5 only (but you need an alternative source of knowledge nature). if you don't have a source for know nature, you can take this at level 7, and bharrai at level 8-18. because straight warlock can't take bharrai until he is warlock 13 due to the knowledge nature 8 requirement
    Actually you only need one of those three. Either BAB 6 or any skill 9 ranks or the ability to cast 3rd level spells. I'd go with the skills for warlock since you don't meet the bab requirement till 9th and don't meet the spellcasting requirement at all without dipping a spellcasting class.
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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    Basically, the abilities utterly suck.
    Its full-casting, so the abilities are irrelevant really.
    But as you said, you can dip in for one level to get Know (Nature) as a class skill and move on to Sentinel of Bear-eye or Swanmay if you really want

    EDIT: I didn't realize what you were saying until Kelb pointed it out. Yes, with Ruathar all you need is a skill at 9 ranks to qualify (and save an elf of course - bleah.)

    Bonus points if you save an Elven Swanmay, qualifying for 2 PrCs at once.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-03-13 at 01:09 AM.

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    Default Re: good warlock PrC other then hellfire?

    Child of Night (ToM117) - qualify by level 5.
    same HD, 1 good save instead of 2, worse bab.
    abilities are actually useful, mainly improving your defenses and granting immunity (to different things than the warlock normally grants).
    Also very cool and thematic build.
    I don't think it is worth the loss of 1 caster level though. it would have been a very cool alternative to traditional warlock if it was a 10/10 casting class though.
    EDIT: actually, now that I think about it, it basically replaces warlock's natural defenses with better natural defenses at the cost of 1 caster level. and a bunch of cool thematically appropriate abilities, its definitely a valid warlock path. not any better or worse than standard warlock 20.[/EDIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Actually you only need one of those three. Either BAB 6 or any skill 9 ranks or the ability to cast 3rd level spells. I'd go with the skills for warlock since you don't meet the bab requirement till 9th and don't meet the spellcasting requirement at all without dipping a spellcasting class.
    actually, a warlocks eldritch blast is considered a spell whose spell level is 1/2 the warlocks level. So at level 6 the warlock automatically qualifies :P

    and I noticed it was or, this is why I summarized with "warlocks 6 qualify" :P

    Its abilities itself really suck, they are all roleplay with no cruch. But the knowledge nature thing makes it a valid dip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gametime View Post
    Warlocks only have one good save, Will. Why do people keep referring to them having two?
    Oops. I remembered them having will and fort for some reason. My bad.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-13 at 03:58 AM.
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