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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Healing:
    Before you say anything, we do not have any arcane casters(I was one, but I have the under-stoppable urge to play a warforged), nor do my conviencing of the non-magical crafter to play an artificer failed(He said he wanted to "stay a fighter", then right after that he was offered to play-test a class, he accepted, this was near immediately after he said that mind you. Despite him belonging to a dwarven clan of artificers, and being a non-magical weapon/armor crafter already. ). I was going to try and gish it to make some-kind of pseudo-paladin, but then I realized that I was not as effective as a normal fighter, I had no "edge", I couldn't hit, I didn't have as much spells, and I much preferred a sorcerer over a wizard.

    Problems/party composition:
    The real problem is I don't have the books, the money to afford the books, and the lack of morality(I feel horrible if I steal something, even if it's old) to pirate. So I mostly relying on SRD, crystalkeep, and Dndtoolbox(Which really only seems to have feats, but it seems to nearly have every feat so...) and the free guide to DnD. The majority of the party is incompitant(2 monks, one human, one a homebrew dinosaur race(who is allowed to flurry with naturals as a houserule), a fighter/ranger(different guy than the crafter, and generally is being tried to be screwed over by the DM for being the most competent guy), a nature cleric(He loves his vine spells, but is a bit reluctant to heal), the "minuteman"(That homebrew class, uses a musket), A bard who just died from team party kill for being incompetent(And being a good guy in a mostly evil/neutral party, he's going to be a negative energy cleric next time), and whatever the fighter/ranger's brother wants to be that week(Last time: Mushroom man druid who never fought and just got us all high using his racial... It was a custom race).

    Level/allowances:
    Most sources, I have to run anything the DM doesn't have by him first, this would include online materials.

    Oh and we rolled for stats, mine were 18 17 17 15 13 9(Which is great btw).

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    how do warforged normally heal?
    can you put it on a wand and give it to someone in the party with use magic device?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Healing:
    If you got the SRD, you got psionics. And warforged get the full benefit from psionic healing powers.

    Party Composition:
    Again, psionics solves your problems. Take Egoist levels, then go into Slayer or War Mind ASAP (depending on if you want better manifesting or combat ability). Nothing gish's like psionics in my experience. The Slayer has almost full manifester progression and full BAB, the class features are just gravy. And while War Mind is very limited in it's manifesting, you'll absolutely butcher things in melee.

    Level/Allowances:
    You can dominate the game with just the psi material in the SRD, you don't need splatbooks. Stats are easy, put the 19 in Intelligence, stick the 9 in Charisma, and scatter the rest around however you like, it won't make a difference.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    how do warforged normally heal?
    can you put it on a wand and give it to someone in the party with use magic device?
    Warforged only get half the benefit of all Conjuration (healing) type spells, but can be repaired with Repair spells/infusions. They can also use Craft skills to repair themselves, but it takes hours.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    how do warforged normally heal?
    can you put it on a wand and give it to someone in the party with use magic device?
    Rangers are divine, and so are clerics. The only spell that heals constructs is an arcane spell, which kinda sucks... alot.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyvurg View Post
    Healing:
    If you got the SRD, you got psionics. And warforged get the full benefit from psionic healing powers.

    Party Composition:
    Again, psionics solves your problems. Take Egoist levels, then go into Slayer or War Mind ASAP (depending on if you want better manifesting or combat ability). Nothing gish's like psionics in my experience. The Slayer has almost full manifester progression and full BAB, the class features are just gravy. And while War Mind is very limited in it's manifesting, you'll absolutely butcher things in melee.

    Level/Allowances:
    You can dominate the game with just the psi material in the SRD, you don't need splatbooks. Stats are easy, put the 19 in Intelligence, stick the 9 in Charisma, and scatter the rest around however you like, it won't make a difference.
    Full BAB and gravy you say?
    I'm going to take a look in this, first things first, time to study psionics! To the SRD-mobile!

    Next question: Are warforged considered proficient with their natural armor/armor based feats, because if so, I could take mitheral body and enjoy a nice, high AC with an extra flaw feat to spare!
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-03-12 at 02:07 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Well, they're technically supposed to hunt and kill mind flayers, but honestly it's not needed to make the class awesome. 9 out of 10 levels give manifester advancement, and with full BAB (and the fact psionics doesn't care about spell failure) you can make a decent gish with an Egoist 10/Slayer 10. ML 19, and the same end BAB of a psichic warrior. It's win-win.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    Next question: Are warforged considered proficient with their natural armor/armor based feats, because if so, I could take mitheral body and enjoy a nice, high AC with an extra flaw feat to spare!
    Yup. And if you don't want to burn the feat, you can still enchant their base composite plating like normal armor and get a decent AC anyway.
    Last edited by Rhyvurg; 2010-03-12 at 02:10 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    Rangers are divine, and so are clerics. The only spell that heals constructs is an arcane spell, which kinda sucks... alot.
    what is that spelled called. and as I said.. UMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyvurg View Post
    Warforged only get half the benefit of all Conjuration (healing) type spells, but can be repaired with Repair spells/infusions. They can also use Craft skills to repair themselves, but it takes hours.
    wand of lesser vigor. you use twice as many charges to heal, but still very good healing. have your cleric or ranger friend use it on you after battle.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-03-12 at 02:13 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Tome of Battle and psionics are your standard answers here. An Adamantine Body'd Warforged Crusader is nigh-impossible to kill at low levels, and the Crusader's healing strikes have full effect on the Warforged. But it would probably completely shatter your group's power curve.

    A full Psion build may have the same problem, actually, since you'd be a functional full-caster in a party that doesn't seem to be very good at them and may not be aware of the power one carries (although if the game is high enough level, you can do an end-run on the healing a Warforged problem with Metamorphosis- just turn into something else to temporarily shed your Warforged qualities.) Psychic Warrior may be closer to the group's normal power zone and playing style.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    I've run into that problem, but I see it as leading by example. You're educating them on what works and what doesn't. Just remember to pull your punches till they get the idea.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    what is that spelled called. and as I said.. UMD.



    wand of lesser vigor. you use twice as many charges to heal, but still very good healing. have your cleric or ranger friend use it on you after battle.
    Missed UMD.

    It's called Repair Light/Moderate/Serious/Critcal Damage, it's pretty much like cure but it only works on constructs. Wizards/sorcerers can take it, so can artificers.

    As for the Crusaders, I'll check if Crystal Keep has it.

    As for shattering the power curve, why not. Leading people from "monks r strong k"(Not going to argue about this, I should be sleeping but this hit me) to "I'd suggest you play unarmed swordsage instead" be a nice change in pace.
    Should I take PSI-forged body or wild talent, although wild talent on the warforged make no sense.

    Thanks for telling me how the Egoist levels made sense, I thought Shaper would make more sense because I would just use psionic repair damage instead, but seeing as I can shed my form for healing this would be pretty cool.

    Edit: No it doesn't, unless said crusader is a cleric variant.
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-03-12 at 02:37 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Yeah I'd recommend Psionics as well. Since you're not doing stupid things like flinging bat poop around and doing the hokey poky, you can use your powers while in armor - or in your case, while being mithril or adamantine plated. Psionics isn't as powerful in pure casting-style ability as core spell-casting but it makes for great blasters and gishes.

    Level 1 - Take the Psion class. Preferably Egoist (for gishy powers), or Shaper (for constructs). Your Psion bonus feat should probably be Psicrystal Affinity which gives you a little construct crystal pet; and you can choose to give a +3 to a skill, or a +2 to a save, or a +2 to initiative.
    Notes: A psicrystal gains hit dice and has an intelligence score, so they can pick up feats. I recommend Skill Focus (Hide/Move Silently) since they're already awesome little spies. Skill Focus (Heal) allows you to drop him on the ground during combat to function as an emergency field medic. Skill Focus (Sense Motive) gives you a little lie-detector. Play around and experiment with your little guy.
    Level 3 - Take Improved Psicrystal (for another bonus to a save or skill) or, if you didn't begin as a Shaper and pickup Astral Construct from your discipline powers, Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct).
    Notes: If you go with the Astral Construct option, you can literally create constructs to be flanking buddies or extra meat-shields. This is pretty awesome as you have a warforged who makes short-duration constructs. It's a construct circus.
    Level 5 - With your 5th level Psion bonus feat, grab another psionic feat which looks appealing. I would recommend Psionic Body (+2hp per psionic feat) which will net you a good +6hp off the bat and another +2 each time you gain a new psionic feat. This helps with your Psion's d4 hit die a lot.

    Level 6 - If you do plan to become a Slayer, you may wish to take Track as your 6th level feat so you can qualify. The rest is yours.

    Alternatively, throw 2 levels of Psychic Warrior into the mix (as your 1st and 2nd levels) for better hit points, two psionic feats, as well as full proficiency in weapons, armor, and shields. The two bonus psionic feats help a lot (more Improved Psicrystal or Psionic combat feats). They also grant another +4 hit points from Psionic Body. If you went Psychic Warrior 2 / Psion 7 / Ranger 1 / Slayer 10, and took the feat Practiced Manifester (Psion) (works like practiced spellcaster, adds +4 to your manifester/caster level for a chosen class, capped at your level), then you will have a +15 BAB, 20th level manifesting (though you will have less power points), and a solid number of options in combat.

    Also, your psicrystal can help you tank effectively. You may share effects targeting you with your Psicrystal. This will allow you to manifest vigor for +5 temporary hit points per power point spent and share the effect with your psicrystal. So if you're 10th level, you can spend 10pp and gain +50 temporary hit points, share the effect with your psicrystal (granting it +50 temporary hit points). Then you can manifest share pain on your Psicrystal, and share your damage with it. This means you effectively take 1/2 damage and shunt an equal share to your buffed crystal.
    Notice: Multiple manifestations of vigor don't stack, they overlap. This means you cannot spend 10pp to gain 50 temporary hit points, and then spend 10pp again to have 100 temporary hit points. You would merely refresh it back to 50.

    Learning Psionics
    The core psionics system is incredible easy to master (I make no promises about anything out of the complete psionic). Here are the key concepts and rules pertaining to them.
    • Psionic: You are Psionic if you have a power point reserve (even if that reserve is currently 0) or the Psionic subtype (which you have automatically if you have a PP reserve). This means you may take any feat with the Psionic descriptor that you qualify for.
    • Manifester Level: Psychic warriors, psions, and wilders have a thing called a Manifester Level (ML). This functions pretty much like caster level for traditional spellcasters. Manifesters may never spend more power points on a power than they have manifester levels (this is very important).
    • PP Reserve and Powers: Instead of casting from spell-slots, psionic characters draw from their power point reserve. This reserve consists of power points gained from your psionic classes, race (if any), and feats. All your classes share the same power point reserve.

      Example: If you gain 2 PP for levels in Psychic Warrior, 10 PP from Psion, and 2 PP from the Wild Talent feat, you have 14 PP.

      However your Manifester Levels do not stack from different classes. Thus if you have 2 levels of Psychic Warrior and 5 levels of Psion, you may still only spend a maximum of 2 PP on both Psychic Warrior powers and 5 PP on Psion powers.
    • Bonus Power Points: Psionic characters do not gain bonus spell slots. Instead you add one-half your key manifesting ability score to your PP reserve for each level you have attained.
      Example: If you are a Psion you manifest with your Intelligence score. If you have a +2 intelligence, you gain +1 PP per level of Psion. If you have a +3 intelligence you gain +1.5 per level. If you have a +4 intelligence you gain +2 per level.
    • Display: Psionic powers have visual, audible, or other sensory clues that show when you are manifesting a power. Things like causing your eyes to glow, a source of ringing or humming in people's ears and minds, odd scents or noises. A psionic character can suppress these signs with a successful Concentration skill check.
    • Manifesting: Manifesting a power requires you to expend the power points indicated by the level of the power. 1st level powers cost 1 PP, with each level higher adding +2 to the minimum power point cost (so a 9th level power costs 17 power points). Besides effects such as duration and range, psionic powers don't usually get better as your manifester level increases. However, see below.
    • Augmenting: You may "augment" psionic powers. This mechanic allows you to spend more power points to improve the effects of your psionic powers. A power lists any possible augments that you may add with additional power point expenditure. For example, the 1st level power Energy Ray deals 1d6 energy damage as a short-ranged ray. Even if you are 20th level psion, spending 1 PP will only get you 1d6 energy damage. Spending 20 PP however gets you 20d6 energy damage. As always, you are limited in how many PP you may spend on a single power by your Manifester Level. You cannot be 5th level and manifest that energy ray power with 7 PP to deal 7d6 damage. You would be limited to 1-5 PP.

      Most powers with save DCs add +1 to the DC for every 2 power points spent. For example, psionic charm has two features of augmenting. Every 2 points spent on the power raises the save DC by +1, and eventually affects more creature types (becoming more like charm monster). Because of this, there are fewer redundant powers; compared to spells like charm person, charm person or animal, or charm monster.
    • Concentration: Using a psionic power is similar to casting a spell. You must make concentration checks for all the usual reasons spell-casters do (grappling, vigorous motion, storms, damage, entangled, etc, etc, etc). You do not have components to your spells; so you don't have problems manifesting in armor and you don't need to speak or throw bat poo.
    • Psionic Focus: Psionic characters have a special resource called Psionic Focus. To become psionically focused requires a DC 20 concentration check as a full-round action (you may take 20 when possible). A character may be required to expend their psionic focus to activate certain abilities - such as psionic feats or meta-psionic feats. Other abilities require them to be psionically focused.
      Example: A psychic warrior begins a fight psionically focused. His Speed of Thought feat grants him a +10ft speed bonus while he's focused. Later he activates his Psionic Weapon feat which allows him to deal +2d6 damage on an attack but requires him to expend his psionic focus to use the feat, and thus looses the speed boost from his Speed of Thought feat. He must regain his psionic focus to gain his speed boost again, or to spend it again to activate his Psionic Weapon feat.

      The psionic focus mechanic prevents characters from "spamming" meta-psionic feats, or feats such as Psionic and Greater Psionic Weapon. This is a largely contributing factor to the balance the psionic system enjoys compared to the standard magic system.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    wand of lesser vigor. you use twice as many charges to heal, but still very good healing. have your cleric or ranger friend use it on you after battle.
    Fasthealing 1 only lasts for half as long on them, then? Or is it possible to be healed half an hp in a go?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    I've never seen or used lesser vigor (I know it's from the Spell Compendium), but it depends on its effect and wording. I'm assuming it's a healing sub-school spell, but if it doesn't actually heal anything and instead grants Fast Healing X for any reason, I would guess it probably works just fine.

    The reason is warforged are only healed half as much by healing spells, such as cure moderate wounds, but it's not that they cannot be affected by them. If a healing spell doesn't actually heal them, but instead gives them the Fast Healing effect, it should work.

    I can't really say though, since I don't have the spell in question.

    Interestingly, constructs and mindless undead may possess Fast Healing despite being unable to heal by normal means.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Well, Lesser Vigor is from Complete Divine, so it may not be viable within the limited sources the OP has available. But, I don't think it would work anyway. In 3.5, when you divide something in half, you round down the result. And half of the 1 HP Vigor heals is .5 HP, which rounds down to zero. Lesser Vigor would have no effect on a wargorged. They don't just get half the benefit of cleric healing spells, but all spells from the healing subschool of Conjuration, regardless of the class casting it. They had to errata the Warforged Juggernaught PRC to make clear that the total immunity to all Conjuration (healing) spells did not extend to Raise spells (though at level 5 of the PRC you're immune to those anyway). The only way to reliably heal warforged on the fly is repair spells/infusions, psionics, or crusader maneuvers.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyvurg View Post
    Well, Lesser Vigor is from Complete Divine, so it may not be viable within the limited sources the OP has available. But, I don't think it would work anyway. In 3.5, when you divide something in half, you round down the result. And half of the 1 HP Vigor heals is .5 HP, which rounds down to zero. Lesser Vigor would have no effect on a wargorged. They don't just get half the benefit of cleric healing spells, but all spells from the healing subschool of Conjuration, regardless of the class casting it. They had to errata the Warforged Juggernaught PRC to make clear that the total immunity to all Conjuration (healing) spells did not extend to Raise spells (though at level 5 of the PRC you're immune to those anyway). The only way to reliably heal warforged on the fly is repair spells/infusions, psionics, or crusader maneuvers.
    Uh, Lesesr Vigor does not heal. It grants Fast Healing 1; an Ex-ability which works just fine. By RAW, it works perfectly well.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Fasthealing 1 only lasts for half as long on them, then? Or is it possible to be healed half an hp in a go?
    I would ask the DM to rule it as either of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyvurg View Post
    Well, Lesser Vigor is from Complete Divine, so it may not be viable within the limited sources the OP has available.
    then wands of CLW

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    I've never seen or used lesser vigor (I know it's from the Spell Compendium), but it depends on its effect and wording. I'm assuming it's a healing sub-school spell, but if it doesn't actually heal anything and instead grants Fast Healing X for any reason, I would guess it probably works just fine.
    Good point, since lesser vigor does not heal you, but grant you fast healing 1 for 10+CL (max 15) rounds, then it should work normally on a warforged.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    Good point, since lesser vigor does not heal you, but grant you fast healing 1 for 10+CL (max 15) rounds, then it should work normally on a warforged.
    That would seem the most logical to me.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    As for the Crusaders, I'll check if Crystal Keep has it.
    Nope. However, the Warblade and all of the ToB maneuvers (including Devoted Spirit) are available on the WotC website.

    Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can find the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats online... although it might be easy enough for us to paraphrase how they work.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    +1 for either Crusader or Shaper.

    Crusader means you won't suck outside of melee. Shaper means you won't suck whenever you feel like it.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Oh wow, this thread is much longer than what I thought it would be, the whole psionic information was very helpful. I still got a few questions, am I auto-proficient with my body feats?

    I forgot to mention, I'm level 5 with default starting gold (9000)

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    am I auto-proficient with my body feats? (9000)
    Yes, I believe so.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    I still got a few questions, am I auto-proficient with my body feats?
    I think the answer is no, but you don't need to be. After reviewing the feats and how the book treats them [Races of Eberron is the relevant book, especially all the examples in the Warforged as (classes) section where they repeatedly suggest Adamantine Body for classes that would lose fundamental class features if it was treated as standard heavy armor] I have to conclude the X Body feats aren't actually armor except where specifically stated to function like armor. So they grant an Armor Bonus to AC and have a Dex cap, and they reduce your speed appropriately if you take Adamantine.. but they don't actually have Armor Check Penalty, and they're not considered armor for purposes of class features that are restricted by armor category. Instead they have a specific penalty to skills that normally suffer Armor Penalty- the difference is that, without an explicit ACP number, it makes no difference whether you're proficient with the body-armor or not. The skill penalty would apply regardless, and there's no actual ACP value to apply to your attack rolls if you are ruled to be non-proficient.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2010-03-12 at 02:19 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    Oh wow, this thread is much longer than what I thought it would be, the whole psionic information was very helpful. I still got a few questions, am I auto-proficient with my body feats?

    I forgot to mention, I'm level 5 with default starting gold (9000)
    Unlike actual Armor, Warforged Body feats are feat benefits, not actual armor. The only thing you need to be concerned about is if the penalty to skill checks says it is an Armor Check Penalty (which I don't think it does, but I can't reference it ATM).

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I think the answer is no, but you don't need to be. After reviewing the feats and how the book treats them [Races of Eberron is the relevant book, especially all the examples in the Warforged as (classes) section where they repeatedly suggest Adamantine Body for classes that would lose fundamental class features if it was treated as standard heavy armor] I have to conclude the X Body feats aren't actually armor except where specifically stated to function like armor. So they grant an Armor Bonus to AC and have a Dex cap, and they reduce your speed appropriately if you take Adamantine.. but they don't actually have Armor Check Penalty, and they're not considered armor for purposes of class features that are restricted by armor category. Instead they have a specific penalty to skills that normally suffer Armor Penalty- the difference is that, without an actual ACP number, it makes no difference whether you're proficient with the body-armor or not. The skill penalty would apply regardless, and there's no actual ACP value to apply to your attack rolls if you are ruled to be non-proficient.
    In both the ECS and RoE it's explicitly spelled out that Adamantine Body does cause you to lose access to abilities as though it were heavy armor. Mithral Body says the same as light armor.
    Last edited by unre9istered; 2010-03-12 at 02:25 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by unre9istered View Post
    In both the ECS and RoE it's explicitly spelled out that Adamantine Body does cause you to lose access to abilities as though it were heavy armor. Mithral Body says the same as light armor.
    Which means either the Sage is wrong and WotC neglected their own rules again or WotC intended him to be right and mistakenly put that in there.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    WotC neglected their own rules again
    My vote goes to this.
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    Kinkal in Voyage of the Iron Maiden
    Jubilus Bellum in To Steal the Sun...On Earth as it is in Heaven
    Frahraek in The Secret Society [Take That 4th Wall]
    Thuk in A Brave New Frontier
    David Narless (Daeclan) in Age of Worms

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Which means either the Sage is wrong and WotC neglected their own rules again or WotC intended him to be right and mistakenly put that in there.
    Mmph. He's right that the feat descriptions do say class features get turned off.. it's just stuck down in the Special section instead of up in Benefits where everything else the feat does is described (all the way over onto the next page in the case of Mithril Body, even.) Intent seems pretty clear that the Body feats should not count against class abilities, considering the half a dozen suggestions the book gives that don't work otherwise.

    Edit: Of course this is pretty much irrelevant to the OP, since we are all agreed that he does not need to worry about proficiency for his psionic Warforged.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2010-03-12 at 02:40 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playing a warforged when the odds are against me.

    Although one would think one would be proficient in all of his armors...

    And wait, for some reason I thought each school of psionics used a different ability score for casting. So egoist if I want to gish, or shaper if I want to be support/heal myself?
    Last edited by Touchy; 2010-03-12 at 02:57 PM.

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