Abjurant Champion

[ChakraChanter]

I personally enjoy this PrC, and recognize it has potential (though some may disagree). Because of its ability to cast abjuration spells as swift actions, what are good abjuration spells to have?

[deuxhero]

First of all, ask the DM if you can have mage armor and it's variants as abjuration spells, as though a sane person was choosing schools.

[ChakraChanter]

First of all, ask the DM if you can have mage armor and it's variants as abjuration spells, as though a sane person was choosing schools.

Understood, but do you know of any spells that are incredibly useful

[Tinydwarfman]

Abjurant Champion is an epic-awesome gish PrC. Get Shield, and if you can't get Mage Armor get Luminous/Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) You have to eat 1d3 points of STR damage every night, but that can be easily solved with a wand of Lesser restoration at that level.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The dispel line are pretty good options to swift cast, especially againts other caster.

EnemyWiz: (flying) "ha pathethic warrior, now try to reach me hahahaha"
AbChamp: "Quickened Dispel magic, now full attack.

[Pluto]

Shield, Protection from Evil, Dispel, Protection from Energy are the usual suspects.

[Tinydwarfman]

Try google. Then try CO boards quicklinks. But here is what you need

[John Campbell]

Other than the ones already mentioned: anticipate teleportation. It's a ten-minute casting time, so you can't swift-cast it, but it's a 24-hour duration before the free Extending, so you only need to cast it every other day. (I've unfortunately not found another good 3rd-level abjuration with a similar duration to fill the slot with on the alternate days.) And it's hilarious, especially if you fight enemies that short-range teleport a lot. Double-especially if your DM minimizes the metagaming or, like mine, just tends to forget that you always have it up.

"So the enemy wizard abrupt jaunts out of reach and casts..."
"Not 'til next turn he doesn't. Where'd you say he'll be coming back in?"
"Aw crap."

[T.G. Oskar]

Resist Energy. With both Swift AND Extended versions, you can prepare for any energy brunt without much trouble. Resist Energy tends to be considered better than Protection from Energy since while the latter protects you completely, the former lasts for a much longer time and the usual amount of damage rarely surpasses 30 (considering you have Reflex saves or Fortitude saves for most of those spells).

SpC-wise: Ectoplasmic Armor if you're facing incorporeal creatures, Daggerspell Stance if you do TWF and daggers, Scintillating Scales if you want your natural armor bonus to become deflection bonus. All of them decent but situational in any case.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You haven't found the true power of AbChamp, my friend. Come back when you tack on Legacy Champion and can auto-quicken up to 8th level Abjuration spells...

[deuxhero]

Sanctum Spell (or some cheese to get spells under their natural level) Maw of Chaos?

[Thurbane]

Can a Duskblade cast metamagicked spells as a swift action if he's a spontaneous caster?

[Godskook]

You haven't found the true power of AbChamp, my friend. Come back when you tack on Legacy Champion and can auto-quicken up to 8th level Abjuration spells...

Personally, and I suspect a lot of people are the same way, I would beat any player with a book who tried to use Legacy Champion to over-extend a 5th level prestige class. Sure, its RAW, but that doesn't mean it'll see play at the table.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Personally, and I suspect a lot of people are the same way, I would beat any player with a book who tried to use Legacy Champion to over-extend a 5th level prestige class. Sure, its RAW, but that doesn't mean it'll see play at the table.

What about Uncanny Trickster and Paragon levels?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Can a Duskblade cast metamagicked spells as a swift action if he's a spontaneous caster?

Yes,

If a spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full-round action for a spontaneous spellcaster.

A swift action spell doesn't have a standard action casting time so its not effected by that rule.

[Ernir]

What about Uncanny Trickster and Paragon levels?

Hmm, there's a Paragon class that advances class features instead of only spellcasting?

[Godskook]

What about Uncanny Trickster and Paragon levels?

Same, mostly. Although, it'd probably be worded in the form of "Non-10th level PrCs have their abilities hard-capped at the end of their progression. Underpowered classes can be homebrewed into longer versions at DM's discretion only."

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Same, mostly. Although, it'd probably be worded in the form of "Non-10th level PrCs have their abilities hard-capped at the end of their progression. Underpowered classes can be homebrewed into longer versions at DM's discretion only."

In the games I run, I don't mind Uncanny Trickster at all, and even will usually allow Legacy Champion. I figure there's a lot worse things you can do, after all. Incantatrix comes to mind pretty strongly. And really, it's the only way to make some builds (like Hellfire Glaivelock) viable.

[Runestar]

Dragon abjurant champion npcs with caster lv = bab...

[Lord Vukodlak]

Dragon abjurant champion npcs with caster lv = bab...

Any DM giving a dragon a character class needs to carefully balance that fact, it actually be a cheap TPK tactic by the sounds of it. Dragons are intended to advance by HD.
If a DM decides to give a dragon class levels he should be fair about it.

[deuxhero]

Or it's a steel dragon wyrmling JPM. But then it is more of a JPM with the steel dragon race.

[Tinydwarfman]

In the games I run, I don't mind Uncanny Trickster at all, and even will usually allow Legacy Champion. I figure there's a lot worse things you can do, after all. Incantatrix comes to mind pretty strongly. And really, it's the only way to make some builds (like Hellfire Glaivelock) viable.

Hellfire Glaivelock is hardly nonviable without legacy champion. Legacy champion just boosts it's damage to "don't bother rolling".

[Godskook]

In the games I run, I don't mind Uncanny Trickster at all, and even will usually allow Legacy Champion. I figure there's a lot worse things you can do, after all. Incantatrix comes to mind pretty strongly. And really, it's the only way to make some builds (like Hellfire Glaivelock) viable.

Now, you see, instead of allowing Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion to break an other-wise hard-capped class feature, I'd simply extend the class by a level or 3 if the player convinced me that viability was an issue. It allows for a viable build using the class, but doesn't set an ugly precedent or double-standard(He can use legacy champion but I can't!).

[PhoenixRivers]

Yes,


A swift action spell doesn't have a standard action casting time so its not effected by that rule.

Arcane Spellsurge shows that swift action spells become standard actions, so no to this.

In addition, if a class feature shortens the casting time, that's not the "normal casting time". The normal casting time is the time listed in the spell's entry. If that's a standard action, then even if it were otherwise shortened to a swift action, by RAW, it'd take a full round action to apply metamagic to.

That said, casting time increases are generally viewed as:

Swift becomes standard, standard becomes full.

[JaronK]

I really don't mind the Legacy Champion/Bloodline type abuse of shorter classes. After all, they lose caster levels and don't gain anything else in those levels. Sure, swift abjurations are nasty, but it means they're not taking levels in something else, like Shadowcraft Mage. I'm far more likely to ban full casters than something like that.

Though a War Weaver/Abjurant Champion with a Major Bloodline could be interesting...

JaronK

[Lord Vukodlak]

Arcane Spellsurge shows that swift action spells become standard actions, so no to this.
That said, casting time increases are generally viewed as:

Swift becomes standard, standard becomes full.

That restriction only applies to Arcane Spellsurge spells, it is not a rule that applies to all spells.

According to the actual rules of the game increases casting time only comes into play if the spells casting time is 1-standard action or longer. I quoted the rules compendium that clarifies in the PHB when they say 1 action spell they mean one standard action.

And I'd say its splitting hairs that an the swift abjuration ability doesn't count as normal because its not a limited use ability.

[Akal Saris]

Hmm... a Wiz 5/War Weaver 5/Bloodline 3/Abj. Champ 5/Incantatrix 2 would be interesting I guess, but really there aren't THAT many high level buff spells or abjurations that would make the lost CLs worthwhile. But in 1 round with timestop you could probably lay out 15 spells or so.

Here's my short list for abjurant champs:

1st:
Shield, Protection from Evil, Ectoplasmic Armor

2nd:
Luminous Armor, Resist Energy, Daggerspell Stance

3rd:
Dispel magic, magic circle, anticipate teleportation (every other day)

4th (not quickened but extended):
Greater Luminous Armor, Dimensional anchor, mass resist energy, greater resistance (every other day)

Yep...looking it over, I remember that I really don't like abjuration very much.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Hmm... a Wiz 5/War Weaver 5/Bloodline 3/Abj. Champ 5/Incantatrix 2 would be interesting I guess, but really there aren't THAT many high level buff spells or abjurations that would make the lost CLs worthwhile. But in 1 round with timestop you could probably lay out 15 spells or so.

What lost CL's do you mean from War Weaver or Bloodline? as that doesn't really relate to the Abjurant champion or abjuration spells. Abjurant Champion's have full casting progression.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Arcane Spellsurge shows that swift action spells become standard actions, so no to this.

Actually, that's not what Arcane Spellsurge says. It states "However, a sorcerer or other spontaneous arcane caster could cast a metamagic spell (as a standard action) and a normal spell (as a swift action) in the same round." It's not saying a swift action spell metamagic's to a standard action, it's saying that you could add metamagic to a standard-action spell so arcane spellsurge reduces it from a full-round to a standard action, instead of a standard to a swift, in order to cast multiple spells in the same round.

[LichPrinceAlim]

EnemyWiz: (flying) "ha pathethic warrior, now try to reach me hahahaha"
AbChamp: "Quickened Dispel magic, now full attack.

That is probably the funniest thing i've yet to see on this forum since the Polar Bear Facepalm