Cerebremancer's Playability <3.5>

[LichPrinceAlim]

I'm not 100% sure that Cerebremancer is even worth taking levels in, considering its EXACTLY like MT. Am I right, or am I missing the secret to using it?

[Swok]

Well, Psion/Wizard has a delicious SAD. Also you're not losing out on cleric chassis like with MT. Cerebremancer is pretty much the same as Psion and Wizard

[LichPrinceAlim]

Well, Psion/Wizard has a delicious SAD. Also you're not losing out on cleric chassis like with MT. Cerebremancer is pretty much the same as Psion and Wizard

though an Archivist/Wizard or Favored Soul or Shugenja/Sorcerer falls under the same book as the Psion/Wizard or Wilder/Sorcerer

so how can Cerebremancer be stronger than a Mystic Theurge?

[Sinfire Titan]

though an Archivist/Wizard or Favored Soul or Shugenja/Sorcerer falls under the same book as the Psion/Wizard or Wilder/Sorcerer

so how can Cerebremancer be stronger than a Mystic Theurge?

Action Economy. Psions are known for being able to seriously abuse their powers and get extra actions/turn.


Oh, and Ardent/Wizard entry with Practiced Manifester=9/9.

[Kylarra]

Schism helps.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Action Economy. Psions are known for being able to seriously abuse their powers and get extra actions/turn.


Oh, and Ardent/Wizard entry with Practiced Manifester=9/9.

couldn't a Psion/Wizard do technically the same thing without the MAD?

So a:

Synad
Psion/Wizard/Cerebremancer/Archmage/Arch Psion

beats a:

Human
Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge/Archmage/Contemplative?

[LichPrinceAlim]

Good question, Can Practiced Manifester/Spellcaster cover the 4 levels either end to boost the spellcasting back to 8th level each?

[AbyssKnight]

1) Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)
2) Ardent 1
3) Ardent 2 (Practiced Manifester)
4-13) Cerebremancer 1-10
14-19) Wizard/Arcane PrC 1-6
20) Ardent

9th level spells (Wizard 17)
9th level powers (Ardent 13 but ML 17 which is how Ardents choose powers)

note you will not have any 7th or 8th level powers

[LichPrinceAlim]

1) Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)
2) Ardent 1
3) Ardent 2 (Practiced Manifester)
4-13) Cerebremancer 1-10
14-19) Wizard/Arcane PrC 1-6
20) Ardent

9th level spells (Wizard 17)
9th level powers (Ardent 13 but ML 17 which is how Ardents choose powers)

note you will not have any 7th or 8th level powers

then it can't qualify of Epic Manifesting (some1 told me it exists)

[AbyssKnight]

Eh...I don't ever worry about the consequences in Epic cause I've never played in a campaign that started pre-Epic and continued into Epic. It either begins and ends pre-Epic, or begins and ends in Epic.

[Optimystik]

@ all the Ardent lovers - please combine it with Psychic Theurge and Cleric instead, for SADness' sake!

then it can't qualify of Epic Manifesting (some1 told me it exists)

Indeed it does

[Tinydwarfman]

then it can't qualify of Epic Manifesting (some1 told me it exists)

But the question is... Do you really care?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Cerebremancer beats the living daylights out of MT. On one side, you have the immediate versatility of a Psion, and on the other you have the long-term versatility of a wizard. And get this, if magic/psionics transparency includes the psicrystal's share powers feature, you can have a psicrystal and a familiar, cast mental pinnacle on both, and BAM! you're now a cerebremancer, and two half-hearted psions. To put it another way, psion uber blasting + wizard BFC = win.

[Sinfire Titan]

couldn't a Psion/Wizard do technically the same thing without the MAD?

So a:

Synad
Psion/Wizard/Cerebremancer/Archmage/Arch Psion

beats a:

Human
Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge/Archmage/Contemplative?

Nope! The Ardent learns their powers based on their Manifester level, thus Practiced Manifester and other effects that boost ML allow you to learn higher level powers. Considering Transparency applies to Magic Items and Spells alike, a few Wizard tricks for getting a high Caster Level actually makes Ardent a much better option, even with MAD.

[magic9mushroom]

Cerebremancer is inferior to Spell to Power Erudite.

However, that isn't saying much.

Given that Practised Manifester can patch the psionic side, it's better than MT.

On the other hand, Mystic Theurge is better if you're using it with Ur-Priest, which has no Psionic equivalent.

Ardent/Ur-Priest Psychic Theurge FTW?

[Amphetryon]

On the other hand, Mystic Theurge is better if you're using it with Ur-Priest, which has no Psionic equivalent.

Sounds like a niche in need of filling.

[Optimystik]

Sounds like a niche in need of filling.

You're right, there aren't enough tier 1 classes.

[magic9mushroom]

So, are we agreed that an Ardent/Ur-Priest Psychic Theurge with Dominant Ideal beats the pants off Mystic Theurges and Cerebremancers?

Or do I hear cries of "Erudite/Beholder Mage Cerebremancer"?

[Optimystik]

So, are we agreed that an Ardent/Ur-Priest Psychic Theurge with Dominant Ideal beats the pants off Mystic Theurges and Cerebremancers?

Or do I hear cries of "Erudite/Beholder Mage Cerebremancer"?

You're just trying to get more people into your sig, aren't you

[Sinfire Titan]

Sounds like a niche in need of filling.

We have two classes that come close, and those two are all ready very good for what they do (War Mind and Fist of Zuoken). We do not need a Psionic Ur-Priest. A Psionic Divine Crusader using CP's Mantles instead of domains would be nice though (so long as Mind's Eye variants are not allowed to work with it).


Hell, a Psionic version of Fiend-Blooded (but for the Phrenic template) would be cool.

[faceroll]

So, are we agreed that an Ardent/Ur-Priest Psychic Theurge with Dominant Ideal beats the pants off Mystic Theurges and Cerebremancers?

Or do I hear cries of "Erudite/Beholder Mage Cerebremancer"?

Cerebremancer is necessary for early entry to mind mage, and also for filling out the rest of the levels after you finish mind mage.

Ardent/Ur priest has a pretty small spell pool and very few powers known, doesn't it?

[Sinfire Titan]

Cerebremancer is necessary for early entry to mind mage, and also for filling out the rest of the levels after you finish mind mage.

Ardent/Ur priest has a pretty small spell pool and very few powers known, doesn't it?

Spells/day as Cleric with Prepared casting as Cleric, minus domains. Ardent may have powers known as a Psion, but mantle selection makes a huge difference. In terms of actual versatility, it would make up for a slightly weaker Psionic side with Cleric casting.

[magic9mushroom]

You're just trying to get more people into your sig, aren't you

I would have put that in my sig, but there's a 500 character limit. And no, I wasn't actually thinking of my sig when I said that.

Cerebremancer is necessary for early entry to mind mage, and also for filling out the rest of the levels after you finish mind mage.

Ardent/Ur priest has a pretty small spell pool and very few powers known, doesn't it?

Few powers known, but with a substituted mantle and Dominant Ideal, it's "quality over quantity".

Small spell pool only if you call the entire Cleric list small.

[LichPrinceAlim]

I also thought a Warmage/Wilder/Cerebremancer would be a blasting machine, though I think the Ardent/Ur Priest/Psychic Theurge and Wizard/Ardent/Cerebremancer or even an Erudite/Wizard/Cerebremancer are good for a semi-optimized party (we have 3 boring PCs, 2 Optimized, and me)

[LichPrinceAlim]

@ all the Ardent lovers - please combine it with Psychic Theurge and Cleric instead, for SADness' sake!



Indeed it does

umm...I can on;y get on here at school, which has SRD blocked, so How????

[Kylarra]

umm...I can on;y get on here at school, which has SRD blocked, so How????

epic powers essentially work the same way as epic spells.

[LichPrinceAlim]

epic powers essentially work the same way as epic spells.

right, but the Ardent/Psion/Cerebremancer in question has no 7th or 8th level powers, thus doesn't qualify...

[Optimystik]

Cerebremancer is necessary for early entry to mind mage, and also for filling out the rest of the levels after you finish mind mage.

Ardent/Ur priest has a pretty small spell pool and very few powers known, doesn't it?

"Very few?"
By the time you qualify for Ur-Priest, you have 4 mantles. That's up to 40 powers, and you can only know 21 of them.

If you really need access to more, the Tap Mantle feat gives you a new mantle (another 10 potential powers) every time you take it. And then there's Expanded Knowledge for the oddball ones.

And all of that isn't even taking into account Mantle substitution, which lets you cherry-pick powers and not even need the above feats.

right, but the Ardent/Psion/Cerebremancer in question has no 7th or 8th level powers, thus doesn't qualify...

But Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge has both 9th-level powers and 9th-level spells, both powered off Wisdom.

Even using Cerebremancer, an Ardent can still get 9th-level powers and qualify for Epic Manifesting.

[LichPrinceAlim]

But Ardent/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge has both 9th-level powers and 9th-level spells, both powered off Wisdom.

Isn't Ur Priest obscenely broken? and at what level can Ardent qualify, considering Ur Priest's prereqs.

and plus, I like the sheer feeling for the Arcane/Psychic with 2 "familiars", a book, and a cool Deep Crystal Staff

[Kylarra]

Ur-priest isn't that broken. It's fairly powerful, being one of the few classes that grant 9th level spells in 9 levels, but eh whatever.

Let's see, pre-reqs, the ardent will need to acquire bluff somehow and hope for psicraft/spellcraft transparency and will probably need a strong fort class to enter before level 9

Else Ardent9/Ur-priest1/Psitheurge 10 works I suppose.