three questions (D&D 3.5)

[Mystic Muse]

he who wishes to cross the bridge of death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see. (I actually do know what the capital of Assyria is.)

Okay, now I'm going to be serious. In the entry on Dragons it has advancement by HD. What does this mean exactly? If I were to somehow give a Young gold Dragon 18 extra HD would it instead be treated as an Old gold dragon? and if so what exactly would that entail?

One of the players in my 3.5 group is taking the Dracolyte prestige class for the wyrmling dragon. Is there any way to get it to artificially advance age categories? or possibly some way to get it to advance age categories sooner?

And last but not least. Does the Bonus HD the Paladin mount gets stack? I don't imagine the Natural armor bonus or the Strength bonus does since that's an adjustment but the HD is specifically called Bonus HD so I thought that maybe it would stack. of course I could be completely wrong about that.

Thank you in advance for answering. I will also thank you in the future but right now I must do Homework.

[Geiger Counter]

Typically Monster advancement is from aging, I don't think you can advance a dragon via age category from adventuring. The eldritch knight is a good option for a player dragon.

[Mystic Muse]

any chance anybody could answer my other questions?

[Godskook]

Okay, now I'm going to be serious. In the entry on Dragons it has advancement by HD. What does this mean exactly? If I were to somehow give a Young gold Dragon 18 extra HD would it instead be treated as an Old gold dragon? and if so what exactly would that entail?

Yes, he'd be an Old Gold Dragon if you gave him racial HD, and that'd entail everything about being an Old Gold Dragon. Class levels do not progress racial HD, and thus, 18 class levels wouldn't change his age category.

One of the players in my 3.5 group is taking the Dracolyte prestige class for the wyrmling dragon. Is there any way to get it to artificially advance age categories? or possibly some way to get it to advance age categories sooner?

Huh? I'm not really sure what you're asking here.

And last but not least. Does the Bonus HD the Paladin mount gets stack? I don't imagine the Natural armor bonus or the Strength bonus does since that's an adjustment but the HD is specifically called Bonus HD so I thought that maybe it would stack. of course I could be completely wrong about that.

Stack with what?

[tyckspoon]

1 and 2: Dragons age by aging. Acquiring extra Dragon hit dice by other means is not aging and will not change age categories (it will, however, change any other features that are based on hit dice, like the save DCs for their special abilities.) You can force aging with appropriate planar trait shenanigans, and I believe there are some spells that can do it as well if you're patient enough apply them the dozens and hundreds of times needed to get through the older age categories.

3: Are you asking if, for example, a 15th level Paladin's Mount has (8+6+4+2) = 20 bonus HD? The answer is no.

[Mystic Muse]

Huh. I wonder why a young gold dragon requires level 20 to be usable as a Paladin mount then.

@ Tyckspoon. yeah, that is what I was asking. Why doesn't the mount get 20 Bonus HD?

[Devils_Advocate]

For the same reason that a 4th level Fighter doesn't get +10 BAB? They're "bonus" HD in that they're in addition to the mount's normal racial hit dice. There is no justification for arbitrarily reading this particular section of this particular table differently from everything else. 'Twould be shenanigans of the highest order, notwithstanding that there may be more overpowered things unambiguously allowed by the rules.

The Draconomicon describes how to level up dragons, starting on page 142. Basically, each time it reaches a relevant age, a dragon is required to take its next level in its monster class.

taking the Dracolyte prestige class for the wyrmling dragon

Could you explain what the heck you mean by this?

Edit: As a rule, dragon mounts seem to be available at the Paladin level equal to their ECL.

[Mystic Muse]

At 5th level in the Dracolyte prestige class you get a wyrmling dragon that follows you around on adventures. It's called foster dragon. I was hoping for some way to advance the dragon past the wyrmling stage short of waiting and/or planar shenanigans.

[Godskook]

At 5th level in the Dracolyte prestige class you get a wyrmling dragon that follows you around on adventures. It's called foster dragon. I was hoping for some way to advance the dragon past the wyrmling stage short of waiting and/or planar shenanigans.

Where is the class, cause a lot depends on the wording.

[Mystic Muse]

Draconomicon.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ah, thanks. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I found that phrase so hard to parse.

Yeah, the foster dragon's explicit lack of advancement except by aging seems problematic for a character who wants to keep it around as he levels. Perhaps the DM might allow for it to be upgraded to a proper cohort if the player takes the Dragon Cohort feat from the same book. Then it could take some class levels.

[Quirp]

The foster dragon class feature is more fluff than crunch. You care for the small dragon, you educate it and you do NOT get it into harms way. When it ages and reaches the next age category it leaves and you get another wyrmling to care for. That´s at least how I always read it. The bonus for this comes at higher level, when you can summon another (bigger, stronger) dragon that can actually more than being a liability.
The wyrmling dragon can still be of use, since he has often a solid intelligence score so you can use him as a kind of sage (wyrmling brass has knowledge(nature/local/history) for example). Ask your DM if the little thing can identify magic items for you (being a dragon and all).
On a side note: Helping a dragon to establish his first (small) horde could make him grateful, just wait a few hundred years until he can really help you with your problems (being an elan helps)

[Mystic Muse]

wait, Draconic cohorts can take class levels?......was not aware of that. do they have the same restrictions as normal cohorts?

[tyckspoon]

wait, Draconic cohorts can take class levels?......was not aware of that. do they have the same restrictions as normal cohorts?

A little bit worse, actually- the Draconic Cohort feat just removes the Dragon penalty so you can have a dragon cohort that will be the same ECL as a normal cohort would be. And yes, they can take class levels; it's the only way they'll get to the level they ought to be (assuming you have a high enough Leadership score) unless you feel like waiting for decades for your Juvenile cohort to age up when you level.

[Mystic Muse]

I've looked in the improving monsters section of the SRD and not once can I find where it says HD have to be racial in order for the monster's anything to increase. It only says that gaining HD from taking class levels does not increase a monster's size or abilities. I guess this sentence might mean that only racial HD can ever advance a monster

The creature’s Hit Dice equal the number of class levels it has plus its racial Hit Dice. Additional Hit Dice gained from taking levels in a character class never affect a creature’s size like additional racial Hit Dice do.

I guess my question is more, if a creature got extra hit dice from being a Paladin's mount, being a druid's animal companion or through something like the wild cohort feat would those count as racial HD or something more along the lines of class HD? if not, not being able to get a young gold dragon as a mount until level 20 sucks.

[Mystic Muse]

dang. Was mostly trying to get a size increase for the huge constrictor so that I could have a Titanboa and trying to help my friend somehow.

I'm going to try and convince the DM to allow her to find a scroll that'll advance her Dragon an age category. (he's said that if it grows older she still keeps it so now worries there.)

As for my Dragon mount, hmm. I still think I want one even if it's not going to be quite as good as I was hoping. Now I just need to find a way to get a good aligned red dragon. (I think they look the coolest. so sue me.)

[Geiger Counter]

I've looked in the improving monsters section of the SRD and not once can I find where it says HD have to be racial in order for the monster's anything to increase. It only says that gaining HD from taking class levels does not increase a monster's size or abilities. I guess this sentence might mean that only racial HD can ever advance a monster

Anything with at least a 3 int and a 1 in all other categories can take class levels.

I guess my question is more, if a creature got extra hit dice from being a Paladin's mount, being a druid's animal companion or through something like the wild cohort feat would those count as racial HD or something more along the lines of class HD? if not, not being able to get a young gold dragon as a mount until level 20 sucks.

You can ride cohorts hireings and just about any NPC or even PC that'll let you.

[Mystic Muse]

Anything with at least a 3 int and a 1 in all other categories can take class levels.

So, since a Paladin mount has a minimum of 6 intelligence it can take class levels? Was not aware of that either.

[JaronK]

Okay, now I'm going to be serious. In the entry on Dragons it has advancement by HD. What does this mean exactly? If I were to somehow give a Young gold Dragon 18 extra HD would it instead be treated as an Old gold dragon? and if so what exactly would that entail?

See Draconomicon for full details, but basically unless they take class levels True Dragons only gain HD by aging, so a Young Gold Dragon would usually become old, and just changes to an Old Gold Dragon for all purposes. If it gained temporary HD somehow then it wouldn't age.

One of the players in my 3.5 group is taking the Dracolyte prestige class for the wyrmling dragon. Is there any way to get it to artificially advance age categories? or possibly some way to get it to advance age categories sooner?

Again, Draconomicon has the main rules you'll need for this. But in this case, you'd have to be hit by some sort of aging spell to just get older.

And last but not least. Does the Bonus HD the Paladin mount gets stack? I don't imagine the Natural armor bonus or the Strength bonus does since that's an adjustment but the HD is specifically called Bonus HD so I thought that maybe it would stack. of course I could be completely wrong about that.

Yes, bonus HD and whatnot do stack. If this has all been about Paladin mounts then treat them basically like class levels... the dragon is still young for all purposes and just has extra HD. Note that aging the dragon should raise it's effective level and thus lower your effective Paladin level for bonuses gained.

JaronK

[Mystic Muse]

actually the earliest Mount to get would be the young red. However I don't know why those are even listed since they're chaotic evil and the entry says only a lawful good Paladin should be allowed to ride a dragon. (that's BS but still.)

EDIT: very young red. That is, if the Paladin is medium size.

[PhoenixRivers]

Here's the real question:

Are there spells that age the subject? Perhaps an evil spell that steals someone's age for youth or something?

Because aging a dragon in that manner would be win/win.

[Mystic Muse]

Here's the real question:

Are there spells that age the subject? Perhaps an evil spell that steals someone's age for youth or something?

Because aging a dragon in that manner would be win/win.

probably. I'll look for something along the lines of a Druid/wizard spell in the spell compendium tomorrow. the only full caster we currently have in the group is a Druid. I'm going to take leadership and get a wizard cohort. (The DM actually asked for it. Luckily I'm using a character concept where the polymorph line of spells doesn't work. I imagine he'll be quite shocked when he realizes I have little to no damage dealing spells.)

[Godskook]

I guess my question is more, if a creature got extra hit dice from being a Paladin's mount, being a druid's animal companion or through something like the wild cohort feat would those count as racial HD or something more along the lines of class HD? if not, not being able to get a young gold dragon as a mount until level 20 sucks.

The standard Leadership cohort advances by xp, and thus, can be progressed in the same ways a PC can be. This is true of a dragon cohort gained by the feat Dragon Cohort, too. Can't remember if Wild Cohort used similar enough wording to count as the same for these purposes.

[PhoenixRivers]

actually the earliest Mount to get would be the young red. However I don't know why those are even listed since they're chaotic evil and the entry says only a lawful good Paladin should be allowed to ride a dragon. (that's BS but still.)

EDIT: very young red. That is, if the Paladin is medium size.

Paladin ACF's allow for evil paladins.

probably. I'll look for something along the lines of a Druid/wizard spell in the spell compendium tomorrow. the only full caster we currently have in the group is a Druid. I'm going to take leadership and get a wizard cohort. (The DM actually asked for it. Luckily I'm using a character concept where the polymorph line of spells doesn't work. I imagine he'll be quite shocked when he realizes I have little to no damage dealing spells.)

If I weren't AFB, I'd be checking Heroes of Horror and Champions of Ruin right now. Those evil types are the kinda cats that would trap and age people to live forever.

[Leon]

The system also allows for typically evil things to not be

[Mystic Muse]

okay, how would a Paladin's mount work in respect to gaining class levels? since it has 6 RHD (an odd housrule by my DM) and six bonus HD (from Paladin) what does that do? I've never played a class with Racial hit dice or bonus hit dice.

[Devils_Advocate]

Page 200 of the DMG discusses cohort mounts. It is suggested that a DM might allow a Paladin to use a cohort as his special mount for +2 to its Level Adjustment.

While this isn't spelled out, I believe that the intent is that the cohort's ECL is only increased by 2, not by the bonus hit dice from being a special mount, and that the mount does not gain special abilities at later Paladin levels than normal as is typical for more powerful mounts.

If so, then this is sort of the cohort equivalent of how Mystic Theurge would work if it granted all of the stacking benefits of an actual Cleric level and an actual Wizard level for each level of the PrC. It's really, really good, in other words, notwithstanding that other options may be even more powerful.

On the other hand, if the bonus hit dice from being a Paladin mount do count towards ECL, this option sucks as an improvement to a cohort, because these bonus HD and the stuff that comes with them aren't really better than an equal number of class levels. Furthermore, I'm having a hard time finding a mount that doesn't become too high ECL to be a cohort to a single-classed Paladin if things work this way. (As a way for a multiclassed Paladin to bring her mount back up to par, it's great, I suppose.)

[Mystic Muse]

what's the ECL of say, a Gold wyrmling dragon cohort? If it's 12 like it seems it is from the HD+la I don't see how I'm supposed to be able to get one at level nine like the Dragon cohort feat says I can.

Just trying to tell if it's a halfway decent feat or if it sucks.

[Starbuck_II]

what's the ECL of say, a Gold wyrmling dragon cohort? If it's 12 like it seems it is from the HD+la I don't see how I'm supposed to be able to get one at level nine like the Dragon cohort feat says I can.

Just trying to tell if it's a halfway decent feat or if it sucks.

Dragon Cohort lowers requirements: You get it as 3 ECL lower than listed by HD + LA.
Didn't you read the feat? pg 104 says this.

So it is 12 without feat, but 9 with feat (notice the asteric below the table thats says this).

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, I noticed that. I was just making sure that it's ECL wasn't still 12. I just wanted to make sure the feat would be somewhat effective.