how magical do you like your worlds?

[krossbow]

Exactly as the topic says. What type of games do you enjoy most, as far as magic and the world go?


Do you like your world to be like the dark ages, with people living in squalor, existing in small thatched hut villages, with wizards and magic in general few and far between?

Do you prefer it to be akin to technology/renassaince, with magic being prevalent in the world, complete with magic marts, ect.

Or do you like it to go even further, with things such as floating cities, entire cities of magic users, and wonders of magic effusing all parts of the setting?

[Grommen]

I like magic to be a tool. A powerful one but still just a tool. One that is in competition with technology, good old fashion brute force and evil cunning.

A trained guy with a stick should have a chance against a wizard always.

Shadowrun is a good mix of mind bending technology, and pure raw magical firepower. And then there is the Panther Assault Cannon. Everyone is made equal by the Panther..

[Aik]

I like magical feeling magic. Doesn't necessarily mean there's heaps of it (indeed - usually it's very carefully placed). It's the opposite of magic-as-a-tool and the opposite of grimdark everything-sucks.

I don't mind magic as a tool - it can be interesting, but my preference is vastly for wondrous magic. Grimdark everything-sucks I tend to avoid.

[Taelas]

The first.

Or rather, a combination between the first and the second. If you know Wheel of Time, that's the level of technology I prefer.

[Satyr]

The less, the better, both in quality and in quantity.
Magic is supposedly magical and strange. It is supernatural, and for me, that strongly implies that it is not supposed to be an everyday appearance, but something rare and strange.
Game worlds I like ususally feature few spellcasters,and most of the time they only have one or two innate talents, or make Faustian deals to get their powers. Spellcasters are never, or almost never major characters, they are either villains, or support characters to the real heroes, including player characters.

[JonestheSpy]

slightly edited version:

My feelings are in line with Satyr's. If magic doesn't evoke some sense of wonder, if it can be taken for granted, then it's not magic, it's just a kind of technology. Not even exciting, scifi space opera technology, but boring pick it up at WalMart or Sharper Image at best technology.

I don't discourage players from being spellcasters, but they are rare in their worlds, and they can't count on having access to every spell they want to pick up, let alone buying magic items.

When magic does show up, it should be powerful and impressive. No going crazy because the party finally found a +1 dagger - an actual magic weapon would be a prized item to be treasured throughout an adventurers career, not something to be traded up as soon as something better is found.

By the way, I find it interesting that the OP seems to equate magic with technology - lack of magic means everyone squatting in mud huts, etc. My main fantasy setting has pretty wide range of technology levels - averaging around early medieval but ranging from stone age to early Renaissance - but magic is rare wherever you go, with a few exceptions.

[Mordokai]

I like a low magic games. In fact, I prefer those to the ones where magic can be found in abundance. It's not that I don't really like magic, but I also have no big love for it. Therefore, low magic setting are very much to my taste and that's part of why I like d20 modern so much.

[krossbow]

My feelings are in line with Satyr's. If magic doesn't evoke some sense of wonder, if it can be taken for granted, then it's not magic, it's just a kind of technology. Not even exciting, scifi space opera technology, but boring pick it up at WalMart or Sharper Image at best technology.

I don't discourage players from being spellcasters, but they are rare in their worlds, and they can't count on having access to every spell they want to pick up, let alone buying magic items.

By the way, I find it interesting that the OP seems to equate magic with technology - lack of magic means everyone squatting in mud huts, etc. My main fantasy setting has pretty wide range of technology levels - averaging around early medieval but ranging from stone age to early Renaissance - but magic is rare wherever you go, with a few exceptions.

The more reliable something becomes, the less distinguishable from technology it is; If magic isn't chaotic or unreliable in some way, its will inevitably end up analogous to technology. hence why i was equating it with technology in the world (and like it is used in several D&D settings where it replaces technology)

If people are bereft of BOTH technology and reliable and magic in the world, then its highly unlikely that people wouldn't be living in squalor/dark ages, hence my second view; There's nothing wrong with technology advancing in a world with magic remaining rare however.

[Satyr]

Not neccessarily, it is also a question of quantiy and quality of spellcasters. If you have only 1 in 25.000 who has a basic magic spark, and only 1 in 50.000 who has trained this ability to an approach that it can be used reliably, will have a lot different impact as if more people can manipulate magical forces.
Likewise, the degree of what people can do and what they have at hand is the other aspect. If every potential mage has only a very limited field of expertise, and trouble to expand this horizon, it is yet another structure.

[JonestheSpy]

The more reliable something becomes, the less distinguishable from technology it is; If magic isn't chaotic or unreliable in some way, its will inevitably end up analogous to technology.

Well, it's a matter of narrative and DM storytelling ability. Yes, for the sake of playability magic rules are codified and predictable. But in the campaign world, it can be an art, not nearly as reproduceable the way technology is. for instance, I like to keep PC's with core spells, but an npc villain might use stuff almost exclusively from the Book of Vile Darkness, just so it's not as predictable. That kind of thing.

Making it not analogous to technology is the whole point, in my pov. Magic should be a matter of talent or however you want to define it - if person A makes the same gestures and says the same words while waving a white feather and some bat guano around, they will not necessarily get the same result as person B doing the same thing.

I think it's worth noting that most works of "High Fantasy" would be regarded as very "low magic" in DnD terms.

If people are bereft of BOTH technology and reliable and magic in the world, then its highly unlikely that people wouldn't be living in squalor/dark ages.

Well, why is a particular technology level tied to magic? There are plenty of things in the game that require a relatively high tech level - full plate armor, for instance - that have nothing to do with the commonality of magic.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Yeah, likewise with Satyr and JonesTheSpy. I don't want magic shops anywhere in my campaign worlds. I'm a history major (well, Medieval Studies but anyway) and one of the things I love to study is how people before our time actually lived, altered their environment to suit them etc. I love reading about where they threw their garbage, how they organized trips to the barber and public bath, how they got their mouths feeling clean in the morning, how they heated their rooms, etc. I don't want Magic Handwavium Solutions for these, at least not in a society that I want to be recognizably human.

I think for me, "magic" or any fantastic element in a story is inseperable with a certain element of Dread. If something is truly supernatural, whether it be a demonic conjuration, a divine visitation, or whatever, then it should feel otherworldly and therefore slightly hostile to our human sensibilities. Outside our comfort zone. I like fantasy with a solid grounding in mythology. No good mythos developed in a vacuum, but borrowed and evoked older ones. Look at the original greek myths or norse sagas where sorcery and the supernatural comes up, and the most common message I find by far is "don't go messing with that ****." People tend to end up dead, transformed or messed up for life. Getting back to the point, I prefer campaign settings firmly grounded in our own world, with magic that feels unnatural and evokes a proper sense of dread or awe.

[Totally Guy]

I like magic with a cost.

Sorcerers (human and rat men only) in my world have to be gifted (trait) in order to cast any spells. Then they test their Fort stat (like Con) to see if it weakens them.

Elves have spell songs that aren't all devastating like Sorcery. Their use accelerates the elves Grief (a bit like the morality track from nWoD). Eventually the elf will wither and die of get on the boat to the west. (We still don't know what that means.)

Orcs have it hard as they have to be gifted, then resist tax and they accelerate their Hatred by casting tough spells.

[krossbow]

there's nothing stopping society from advancing their technology without magic; just in that situation civilization would have evolved apart from magic, while technology and society would be symbiotic. Hence magic really wouldn't fit in with civilization, and would only exist outside of it.


My initial statement about magic/technology is merely the inverse of clarks law; "any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology".

[Egiam]

I'm kind of a hypocrite, because I prefer low-magic, but am an Eberron fanatic.

When it comes to roleplaying games, I consider magic to ideally be a tool to keep the plot moving. When it is not that, it turns into an impediment for good gameplay. "Good" magic keeps the action coming, while still maintaining an organic plot, or, even better, augmenting it.

EXAMPLE OF GOOD MAGIC IN POPULAR MEDIA:
The Harry Potter series is a masterpiece in this regard. Magic coats the world, and yet the plot still moves like any other great story. The same themes can be found in Shakespeare's works, Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, and The Odyssey.


I also think that Changeling: The Lost (A supernaturals expansion from White Wolf for the World of Darkness series, for those not in the know) deserves special mention. While I have not actually gotten around to playing it, I have a great feeling about the game from reading the book. The magic system is creative, original, and well constructed for the RPG medium.

[Vitruviansquid]

I'm really okay with any treatment of magic as long as it's consistent.

[J.Gellert]

High fantasy, low-magic. Not as low as in The Lord of the Rings, but close. Maybe something like Conan, in the sense that there is magic around, most definitely, but still, the majority of people don't understand it, or haven't even seen it for themselves. They have only heard rumors about it...

There are only like three and a half schools of magic in my campaign setting, and they are all more akin to hidden temples or dark fortresses than your generic "pay tuition and be taught by professors" magic university.

Also, even adventurers can't expect to ever have more than three or four magic items, which are all unique, and never mass-produced +1 swords. Magic items are never for sale. Retired adventurers either hide them away or pass them on to the next generation, and only those muggles who don't know what that amulet really is may try to sell it.

[Zen Master]

As far as I'm concerned, the pc's should feel special - in this regard meaning that their access to magic is noteworthy and unusual.

For that reason most enemies will not have magical gear, and enemy spellcasters will be (relatively) rare - however, those enemies that have magical assets will be extremely dangerous.

In other words, I have (relatively) low magic worlds, with the pc's at a noticably higher magic level.

[Saurus33]

I like magic which makes sense. If I can look at the thing and ask why something is the way it is, and have the reply "It just is," then something has gone wrong.

Magic is relatively common; high up people might have a few trinkets, and a military champion is going to have a magical sword.

+1 style magic items are the most common; what boggles my mind is that they are considered "boring". In character, if you hadn't seen one you'd probably be amazed. Consider masterwork weapons now; people still talk about that really sharp "x" that could cut through iron sheets or whatever; where you have weapons that are better than it is humanly possible to make, people will talk, though if they're as common as a fairly well-made sword, like in my worlds, then it might only be the +2's and +3's.

Magic does not have the combination of inexplicable actions and talking swords that people seem to think of as "magical"; any truly impressive feat of magic is going to have a good reason and either perfect clarity or intense willpower behind it.

Also; no talking weapons, rods of wonder et al without some reason to exist. Everything that has been created was created for a reason, much like how some of the more complex technological items now are.

Magic itself is a source of energy which can be manipulated through willpower/natural talent; achieving anything requires either a precise conceptual construct, much like a program(Int-based), a strong image of what you are trying to achieve and how (Cha-based) or utter serenity and the guiding hand of divine influence (Wis-based).

PC's are not special by virtue of existence; they are exceptional people, doubtless, but they are not chosen by fate. Fate doesn't exist; personal agency is the cause of all choices made or not made.

[magic9mushroom]

Also; no talking weapons, rods of wonder et al without some reason to exist. Everything that has been created was created for a reason, much like how some of the more complex technological items now are.

Rods of Wonder at least could have been made for the Chaotivulz. And intelligent items are useful, look at all the robotics research today.

[boomwolf]

In my games magic is very varied, going all the way from "common junk traces of magic" to the "all mighty wonderful magic"

Yes, a +1 sword is rather common. and a guy with a few first level spells can be found all over the place, but that +5 shocking burst longsword is damn hard to get, and the sorcerer that can dominate people and shoot cones of cold is scary as hell and entire platoons will be sent after him if he is an enemy.

[Ossian]

In my games magic is very varied, going all the way from "common junk traces of magic" to the "all mighty wonderful magic"

Yes, a +1 sword is rather common. and a guy with a few first level spells can be found all over the place, but that +5 shocking burst longsword is damn hard to get, and the sorcerer that can dominate people and shoot cones of cold is scary as hell and entire platoons will be sent after him if he is an enemy.

Low magic is my favourite. Protective gear and weapons with bonuses are ok, with few spellcasters, mostly NPCs of mid to high level. Two of the PCs now are a Duskblade 12 and a Wizard / Bard 13/1, although theyx can pretty much count only on their spells and a good sword :)

[Optimystik]

I like psionics the most, because they can fit in every setting - from medieval swords and wenches, to a 20th century noir detective story with guns, to a hyperadvanced society bristling with alien technology.

I tend to prefer high magic, though low magic can work if there are rituals/incantations strategically placed in the world to handle the heavy stuff (like plane-hopping.)

[TheMadLinguist]

+1 style magic items are the most common; what boggles my mind is that they are considered "boring". In character, if you hadn't seen one you'd probably be amazed. Consider masterwork weapons now; people still talk about that really sharp "x" that could cut through iron sheets or whatever; where you have weapons that are better than it is humanly possible to make, people will talk, though if they're as common as a fairly well-made sword, like in my worlds, then it might only be the +2's and +3's.

"Well, it's a greatsword which is slightly better at cutting things"
"How much better?"
"I'd say about, oh, fifteen percent or something."
"Can it cut through rocks?"
"You can scratch them half the time. Instead of forty percent of the time."

Vs.

"Well, it's a greatsword. Which can cut through pretty much anything."
"What do you mean by pretty much anything?"
"I mean I can cut through an inch-thick wall of stone in about ten seconds"


Adamantine weapons are far more interesting than +1.

[Jon_Dahl]

If there is too much magic, it becames mundane.
Keeping things low-magic is the best.

[boomwolf]

"Well, it's a greatsword which is slightly better at cutting things"
"How much better?"
"I'd say about, oh, fifteen percent or something."
"Can it cut through rocks?"
"You can scratch them half the time. Instead of forty percent of the time."

Vs.

"Well, it's a greatsword. Which can cut through pretty much anything."
"What do you mean by pretty much anything?"
"I mean I can cut through an inch-thick wall of stone in about ten seconds"


Adamantine weapons are far more interesting than +1.

But you forgot that the +1 is getting you closer to a sword that can ignite itself or shoot lightning then adamantine one does.

[Hal]

I like my fantasy settings medium to high magic. Proliferation of a "technology" just makes sense as far as I'm concerned.

And personally, I often see "low-magic" games as synonymous with "I don't want you to have any treasure, ever" from the GM.

[Nero24200]

I like variable magic. Sometimes I like low-magic settings, other times I'm looking for Dragonball Z levels where the PC's have enough magical power to destroy planets.

Though usally it's the low magic one, hence why I prefer Iron Heroes (where the magic is limited to what you put in it). It -is- a pet peeve of mine about D'n'D in that remove certain magical elements starts to screw the game (for instance, removing certain casters and suddenly healing potions can't exist).

[Volkov]

High-magic, balanced out by the presence of Aliens who are beyond sufficiently advanced and psionics. Armies of ethergaunts duking it out with armies of mind flayers just screams awesome.

[arguskos]

Wow. Based on this thread, I feel like a criminal for actually liking a world where magic is a commonly practiced art form. To me, magic is a way for someone to achieve something with their life in these worlds. I like it when there are colleges for mages that focus on teaching methods of using their powers, for good or ill, and similar. I don't have extreme magic marts, but I reason in a sufficiently old magical society, there are people who will sell what magical gear they can, and given how old some of my campaign worlds can be, that could be quite a bit.

[Greenish]

If there is too much magic, it becames mundane.

Yes.

Keeping things low-magic is the best.

That does not necessarily follow.

I like my worlds high on magic, preferably fully integrated with the society (and resulting in the magitech you'd expect to find in such a setting). Minor magical talent wouldn't be noteworthy at all, though someone lacking it could be considered retarded.

Cities floating in the air? It wouldn't even be a particularly impressive style of architecture!