A Trapping Question!

[Shadwen]

Ok lets say I can cast wall of force and wall of fire. Im sure this has been asked before If I set my opponent inside of this (see below)


---
l *l l
---

Ok well here we go:

The * is the person the center (l) is a wall of fire the surrounding barriers are wall of force. It would take some time and require maybe some quicken or something to that extent. It would bounce them around through the fire until the spells end, they die, or somehow are dispelled.


Here are my questions:

How can I do this effectively, Is it stoppable, Is it infinite, and Can casters cast while bouncing around?

Should I use Time Stop?

[Drend]

Ok lets say I can cast wall of force and wall of fire. Im sure this has been asked before If I set my opponent inside of this (see below)


---
l *l l
---

Ok well here we go:

The * is the person the center (l) is a wall of fire the surrounding barriers are wall of force. It would take some time and require maybe some quicken or something to that extent. It would bounce them around through the fire until the spells end, they die, or somehow are dispelled.


Here are my questions:

How can I do this effectively, Is it stoppable, Is it infinite, and Can casters cast while bouncing around?

Should I use Time Stop?

Yeah, it's stoppable. Fly, Levitate, a monk who can use bird flips, etc. will get you out of it. The walls only go 20 feet high, so you can quickly fly or levitate out. Bird flipping would work the same way. You could also use Disintegrate to destroy the wall of force, Resist energy and wait it out, D-Door or Teleport out.

EDIT: Wall of fire does not physically rebuff a character, it merely deals damage. Also, a couple of Cone of Cold spells would deal with the fire wall as well.

[ryzouken]

They won't be bouncing around, they'll be confined to whatever squares you select the walls to surround. If they're trapped in an area smaller then their space (unlikely given spell targetting rules), they'll merely be squeezing. In either case, they will still be suffering damage from the wall of fire, which I believe counts as sustaining damage during casting thus requiring a concentration check to cast.

A Time Stop will let you sling the requisite spells if maximized or if quickening the other spells. Note that as your combo deals fire damage, it is of limited utility at the levels you'll be performing the trick, as many critters and NPCs have resist/immune: fire. This is particularly true at epic levels. Consider Energy Substitution: Acid to rectify this problem.

[jindra34]

Note that as your combo deals fire damage, it is of limited utility at the levels you'll be performing the trick, as many critters and NPCs have resist/immune: fire. This is particularly true at epic levels. Consider Energy Substitution: Acid to rectify this problem.

At those levels you may as well replace wall of fire with blade barrier. That way the entire box+ grinder is force and will do lots of damage. Course you still need to work out a no flying zone or they will likely escape.

[Shadwen]

A wall of force will be placed across the top and trying to find a way to drop one below them to force them to bounce. If of course it doesnt work atleast they will be stuck.

[Claudius Maximus]

A wall of force will be placed across the top and trying to find a way to drop one below them to force them to bounce. If of course it doesnt work atleast they will be stuck.

A Wall of Force must be vertical.

What do you mean by "bounce"?

[Shadwen]

like being trapped between walls that are spread semi apart and ricochetting off the walls back to the other and so forth.

There is no way to change the way the wall sits?

[jindra34]

like being trapped between walls that are spread semi apart and ricochetting off the walls back to the other and so forth.

There is no way to change the way the wall sits?

Nope. And none of the walls that would obstruct movement enough to cause 'bouncing' can be formed in a square with a critter in it. If you want to trap a critter you have to use force cage, which unfortunately blocks you from casting in there while completely containing the target. And still does nothing about a teleporting critter as yes a caster could cast from inside.

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm not sure how Wall of Force works in an environment with no gravity/subjective gravity like the Plane of Air or the Astral Plane; perhaps it's possible to make a Wall of Force in any orientation you want in such a place.

Why do you think they would be bouncing about? Neither Wall of Force nor Wall of Fire repel creatures.

[jseah]

They do not bounce. People in D&D do not have velocity, they only have translation. F = md in D&D land.

In less physics terms, it means that things don't bounce. Period.

[Shadwen]

Force just sounded like it would force them to bounce if they walked on it. but if unable to set it like that I guess i could just hit them with it and hope they dont fly. I might be able to dispel fly or what spell would knock them back in?

[jindra34]

Force just sounded like it would force them to bounce if they walked on it. but if unable to set it like that I guess i could just hit them with it and hope they dont fly. I might be able to dispel fly or what spell would knock them back in?

In Dnd Force is another primary substance, like fire, water, air, earth and such. And not everything that flies does so by magic. And if something does get out its going to be nigh impossible to get them back in. You'd be better off figuring out an easy way to create a deep pit under somebody then casting the wall of flame or whatever at the bottom. I'm sure people here might have an idea about how to do that.

[Shadwen]

Ok, then lets change the general subject here.


I need a way to trap someone so they die or have a low chance of surviving it.

[jindra34]

Deep pit+ Blade Barrier+Silence+ downward aimed ongoing Gust of Wind. Getting it all to go off at the same time is the tricky bit though. And still gives a decent survival chance. No trap in Dnd can be called a sure fire death trap.

[Shadwen]

3.0 trap?

me and the dm of the game im going to play in about 30 minutes is wanting me to make a character for his next game...im to hunt the rest of the party. Need a good way to do this.

3.0

[jindra34]

If you can make the deep pit thats all 3.0 core stuff. Bladebarrier and Silence at bottom of pit (Silence to hamper casting Bladebarrier to damage) with a Gust of Wind spell being aimed down the length of the pit.

[Shadwen]

Ok, would I be better off just playing a rogue and stacking up to deal more sneak attack?

[jindra34]

Ok, would I be better off just playing a rogue and stacking up to deal more sneak attack?

Rogue playing hide and go stab or caster making convoluted death traps that would make Bond villians proud. What do you think?

[Captainocaptain]

Orb of annhilation in the statue's mouth? (thanks Gygax. just thanks)
But seriously, for a kill-all trap thats hard to escape from... If you've got time stop, just stack as many delay-blast fireball spells as you can on the enemy, energy substitute acid or something to avoid common elemental resistances. Then watch as they set off every delay-blast fireball you set.

[Jack_Simth]

Ok, then lets change the general subject here.


I need a way to trap someone so they die or have a low chance of surviving it.

Well, if your opponent can't teleport, a Barred Forcecage, followed by a Wall of Fire at the edge of the Forcecage, is pretty lethal (assuming, of course, that the Wall of Fire either has enough oomph to overcome resistances, or has been substituted to something the critter can't resist). Of course, by the time you're doing that, most things are either able to port around, or are dead anyway. The classic setup for this is as follows:

1) Time Stop (rod-maximized/empowered, or Sudden Maximized/Empowered):
1.1) Dimension Lock
1.2) Wall of Fire (or other long-running continuous harm spell of choice).
1.3) Forcecage.
2) Wait
3) Loot the body
4) Sell the Loot
5) There is no ????
6) Profit!

In a closed environment (such as a dungeon), you can replace the Forcecage with other Wall spells (such as a Wall of Force or Walls of Stone), but they're slower and less reliable.

And it requires that you face opponents who are subject to the trick (many aren't, at the level required to pull it off).

[ericgrau]

At low levels the fight is over by the time you finish casting, assuming he hasn't already moved. By the time you get time stop many creatures have counters but it may work under certain circumstances. Thing is, if you prepare spells for specific circumstances you have that many less left over for other circumstances. Ya, you can use these spells for other things too, but then you come to trap a baddy that can't teleport and oh snap I already burnt one of my 4 walls of force.

This may be more useful at all levels: Drop a wall of force next to a baddy that reaches all the way to a dungeon wall, with a generous length in the other direction too just in case he moves. Next turn make another wall touching the first wall and the same dungeon wall, forming a triangle. Thus the baddy is trapped until the end of the fight. No need to do any more. He might as well be dead because you don't have to fight him. After you finish off his friends your party can gang up on the guy you trapped and easily defeat him. Other wall spells may also work, but they aren't as good at it for various reasons.