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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Guys, I am looking for some tips into building a combat oriented cleric. I mean cleric because It will be hard to play another kind of "champion of the Gods" (meaning a Paladin) due to party alignment disparity (meaning that there will probably be evil characters around). And I don't want to bend the rules too much.

    So I will try playing a LN Cleric of Helm that can carry himself well at combat. Really, I rolled awesome stats, so this character should not be very hard to get going (17,17,16,16,14,11). I just need a few ideas into how I can carry this character out effectivelly on the Pathfinder system, which is something new to me.

    Any tips around a build, rules, domains, spells or anything that can help is much apreciated.

    Thx in advance.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Are you restricted to only Pathfinder or can you bring in 3.5 material as well?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    We will keep it most to Pathfinder, but you can bring the Completes and the FRealms stuff. Only stray away from Complete Champion, my DM does not like it.

    Also, PHII is ok.
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    Originally Posted by Dyllan

    Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
    "Justice and liberty/You can't buy/But you don't get it free"
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Fawsto View Post
    We will keep it most to Pathfinder, but you can bring the Completes and the FRealms stuff. Only stray away from Complete Champion, my DM does not like it.
    That's a shame; Ordained Champion is nifty for combat clerics.

    Anyway, you can pretty much go straight Cleric and still be extremely effective, especially with the (incredible) stats you have.

    Str 17
    Dex 14
    Con 16
    Int 16
    Wis 17
    Cha 11

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    There are (probably) plenty of cleric OP threads out there. The simplest and fastest way to get your character built is to find them, then just double check the rules against pathfinder. Basically everything that's good in a core cleric build will be just as good or better in a PF cleric build.

    Take the War domain, and have a god with favored weapon Greatsword

    Use said Greatsword.

    Power Attack is a pretty good feat, though now I remember it's not as good in PF as it was in core.

    My groups tend to be pretty starved for cash/items, so if I'm playing a full caster I like to take Craft Wonderous item for them.

    If you can afford Full Plate, buy it.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Handbook. Read it. Love it.

    Also, DIVINE METAMAGIC. If you cannot use domain/devotion feats, I cannot stress how immensely important this is.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    The biggest Pathfinder change to combat Cleric is Divine Power; on one hand, you can no longer dump BAB to all hell, but on the other, while you're behind on BAB, you gain rather obscene amounts of Luck-bonuses to hit and damage. Also, Strength-checks including Tripping and the like (something to think about).

    Righteous Might is still as good as ever. Most notable thing is that Divine Power now obsoletes Divine Favor. Righteous Might+Divine Power is still as kickass as ever. Helm's Favored Weapon is Bastard Sword, which is alright. It might not really be worth your time to spend effort on using it though; chances are simple Quarterstaff with Spikes [CDiv] cast on it will do better.


    PF Cleric-levels are made of just as much fail as standard Cleric (Channel Energy is a ****ty ability you'll never use for its intended purpose, but with which you will fuel Turning-related feats as it's the same ability) so it's in your best interests to search for an appropriate PrC.

    Given you're a Cleric of Helm, I'd look at Church Inquisitor. It's pretty appropriate for Helm and quite useful. It may be worthwhile to think up a second PrC to enter once you're done, but that's not really relevant at the time; Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative and company are all good options.


    As mentioned, Divine Metamagic [CDiv] is probably still the best way to go to have your round/level buffs up all day (combined with Extra Turning-feats to fuel it); Persist Divine Power, Righteous Might, Mass Lesser Vigor/Vigorous Circle, Visage of the Deity-line, Recitation, etc. (you can also Miracle some amazing spells Giant Size and such, but that's level 17 so probably not in your immediate future) as you gain level and go to town.

    Combine that with standard hour/level buffs in Spikes, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Superior Resistance, etc. On level 1, simple Divine Favor will do fine, as will Lesser Vigor.


    Oh, and thy patron deity is Helm? Planning and Strength are fine domains for a warrior deity; early on Enlarge Person is as good a combat buff as any and getting bonus Extend Spell really helps out. So, to sum it all up, I suggest:

    Middle-Aged Human Cleric of Helm
    Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 10/???

    Str 17 (16)
    Dex 14 (13)
    Con 16 (15)
    Int 11 (12)
    Wis 17 (18)
    Cha 16 (17)

    Planning & Strength-domains (the one-time Strength-bonus is nice too)

    Feats:
    Planning. Extend Spell
    1. Persistent Spell
    B. Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell
    3. Extra Turning/Channeling
    6. Extra Turning
    9. Extra Turning

    and then take Power Attack, Quicken Spell, etc. at your leisure (or more Extra Turnings). At your option, consider Combat Expertise > Improved Trip-line. As you're early on Enlarged and later on Righteous Mighted, you'll have fine reach even if you don't use reach weapon, and Improved Trip gives you nice control.

    And as I said, Divine Power now boosts Strength-checks. Oh, and if Flaws are allowed, you can condense the Extra Turnings to a bit tighter space. Also, items you'll eventually want to aim for as you gain money:
    - Heward's Handy Haversack [PF Core]
    - Ring of Enduring Arcana [CM]
    - Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC]
    - Ankh of Ascension [MiC]
    - Ring of Counterspells (Greater) with Greater Dispel Magic on them [PF Core/MiC]
    - Ring of Spell-Battle [MiC] (misdirect opponent's Disjunctions!)
    - Monk's Robe [PF Core] (an alternative to wearing armor; don't forget to Magic Vestment the Robe itself if you use it though, and consider getting Mage Armor from some source)
    - Nightsticks [Libris Mortis; you're fine without though]
    - Strand of Prayer Beads - Beads of Karma [PF Core]
    - Orange Prism Ioun Stone [PF Core]
    - Animated Heavy Steel Shield [PF Core]
    - Metamagic Rod of Chain/Quicken/W/E [PF Core/CArc/CDiv/MiC]

    The good news is that you're mostly gear-independent. With Extra Turnings providing you with your Turn Undead attempts (don't forget to Extend the spells when possible; then they'll last 48 hours and you only have to cast them every other day effectively doubling the amount you can keep Persistent) and your spells fueling your combat ability and protections, leaving you only to protect yourself from Dispels, which all you need equipment for.

    Best way to do that is to buff your caster level skyhigh (also, as a bonus, that gives you bigger bonuses from GMW/Magic Vestment and makes hour/level spells last longer) and counter dispel-effects as possible. Oh, and obviously get Con/Str/Wis/Cha-boost items. But that goes without saying. And obviously only take what's available. Again, that's not my jurisdiction; I'm just trying to be relatively comprehensive so you have enough options within your allowed sources.


    So, yeah. There. Warrior Cleric of Helm at your service. He'll kick the Paladin pansies' ass, btw. As long as they've broken the code at any rate. For he is watchful.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-03-28 at 10:17 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    I was considering a dip into fighter or paladin, does it cut it?
    Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
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    Originally Posted by Dyllan

    Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
    "Justice and liberty/You can't buy/But you don't get it free"
    - Bruce Dickinson, Born in 58

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Fawsto View Post
    I was considering a dip into fighter or paladin, does it cut it?
    A one level dip into Prestige Paladin gives you access to the paladin spell list, and with battle blessing lets you cast paladin spells as a swift action.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Fawsto View Post
    We will keep it most to Pathfinder, but you can bring the Completes and the FRealms stuff. Only stray away from Complete Champion, my DM does not like it.

    Also, PHII is ok.
    Blergh. Sorta sad.

    Dip a level of Inquisitor for Monster Lore and take Knowledge Devotion if you can. Wis to monster weakness checks, then that to damage with Knowledge devotion. You lose a level of cleric casting, but you do get a level of Inquisitor casting, so it's not a total loss.

    This is, of course, if you want to stay /mostly/ PFRPG. Otherwise go read the Cleric Handbook, it really is awesome.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Fawsto View Post
    I was considering a dip into fighter or paladin, does it cut it?
    No reason. With Spikes, Quarterstaff is the better weapon anyways, you already have heavy armor proficiency and caster levels are indispensible.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by IonDragon View Post
    If you can afford Full Plate, buy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    you already have heavy armor proficiency
    Pathfinder Clerics, unless there is an errata I am unaware of, do not get heavy armor proficiency.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by The White Knight View Post
    Pathfinder Clerics, unless there is an errata I am unaware of, do not get heavy armor proficiency.
    Hm, forgot about that little minutiae. Well, use the heaviest medium armor you can afford until you get Monk's Robe then.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by The White Knight View Post
    Pathfinder Clerics, unless there is an errata I am unaware of, do not get heavy armor proficiency.
    No more Mithral?

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Alternatively, Mithral Full Plate. All the benefits, fewer drawbacks. Plus it's light and breezy!

    EDIT: Ninja'd!
    Last edited by IonDragon; 2010-03-28 at 05:37 PM.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Mithral doesn't lower the weight category of armor for the purposes of proficiency - you'll still have to be proficient in heavy armor to wear mithral full plate.

    That being said, it's not a bad feat to take. A one-level dip in Fighter would serve you well, too - proficiency in all martial weapons and with all armor and shields is not a bad deal, even if you do lose a caster level (and since you're going for a more paladin-y flavor, a lost caster level is not something terrible).

    Straight Cleric shouldn't be bad - especially since the power of your domain abilities usually scale with your Cleric level.

    I also made a homebrew domain you may be interested in, if your DM allows it: http://www.pathfinderdb.com/characte...domain-weapons
    Last edited by Rixx; 2010-03-28 at 05:52 PM.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    First, yeah, Pathfinder Mithril explicitly doesn't reduce the proficiency (yet another mini change from 3.5). Pathfinder SRD confirms this.

    As I said, Monk's Robe is still the best long-term solution and costs about as much as Mithral Fullplate so I don't get what y'all are talking about. Combine it with Bracers of Armor if you don't have a pocket mage to borrow Mage Armor from. Just use Breastplate until then. With 14 Dex, you should be fine.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-03-28 at 06:02 PM.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Don't dip fighter... there has to be some Cleric-friendly PrC that grants casting and heavy prof.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Superglucose View Post
    Don't dip fighter... there has to be some Cleric-friendly PrC that grants casting and heavy prof.
    No there's not. 'cause Core Cleric has Heavy Armor Prof, there's 0 reason to give any Cleric PrC Heavy Armor Profs (none of the Cleric PrCs outside Thaumaturgist are PF updated for obvious reasons and...yeah, that doesn't have Heavy Armor Profs). But again, Monk's Robe, Monk's Robe, Monk's Robe. Did I say it often enough? If not, Monk's Robe, Monk's Robe, Monk's Robe.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-03-28 at 06:16 PM.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Not even Ordained Champ? :P That's lame.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Superglucose View Post
    Not even Ordained Champ? :P That's lame.
    Hell, it's so new they don't even list A&W Proficiencies in PrC entries anymore at that point. But yeah, since Monk's Robe is just as good as Mithral Fullplate or even better, I still suggest Monk's Robe
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Don't get wis to AC from monk's robe any more either.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkysBrain View Post
    Don't get wis to AC from monk's robe any more either.
    Woah, I've missed the fineprint. Ah well, Mithril Breastplate or Celestial Armor with Divine Agility then. Celestial Armor + Divine Agility would result in the highest AC total (with 14 base Dex, it'd be a total of 7+5 and +5 enhancement for a total of 17, while +5 Mithril Fullplate + 3 Dex is 16).
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Hi

    There's always Holy Warrior from the Pathfinder Chronicles. Supposed to be exactly what you're asking for, but still trawling 'net for specifics.

    Cheers
    Paul H

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Hi

    Pathfinder CHronicles Pg 43

    "Holy Warrior (Ex): A cleric with this ability is proficient with
    her deity’s favored weapon. In addition, her base attack
    bonus as a cleric equals her cleric level, and her cleric Hit Die
    becomes a d10."

    "Class Abilities: Some clerics think of themselves more
    as holy warriors than proselytizers or shepherds. For these
    clerics, the ability to fight trumps all
    other concerns. Taking the above ability
    requires a cleric to give up both of
    her domains, including her
    domain powers."

    So you get D10 HP, Spells, Full BAB, Deity's Wpn Prof, Channel Energy, etc.....

    You lose Domain Spells/Abilities (as Cleric), Ftr bonus feats/abilities, Hvy Armour Prof, Marshall Wpn Profs (as Fighter).

    Not really a difficult decision.........

    Cheers
    Paul H

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    In the Pathfinder Campaign Setting book, there's a variant cleric. They get heavy armour, and full BAB. They lose domains though, and domains are pretty nifty. This is remembrance though, as I don't own the book.
    Edit: Holy Ninjas!
    Dipping Paladin if you can live with the code, or one of the variant paladins, might be good. Detect evil, a single Pathfinder Smite Evil for the big fight, is pretty good. Or Barbarian, if your alignment doesn't fit. You don't get heavy armour, but it's actually pretty flavourful, you are literally raging fanatic for your god. Do your buffs beforehand though, as you can't do spells while raging, I think.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2010-03-29 at 06:28 PM.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Hi

    The Cleric you mention is Holy Warrior I mentioned earlier, but they don't get the Heavy Armour prof, so a level dip into Paladin might be good for the armour and weapons.

    Don't forget Paladins Smite Evil works differently - lasts until target or you go down, auto overcomes any DR and adds Cha bonus as Deflection bonus to AC.

    Cheers
    Paul H
    PS Paladins still get their Cha bonus to hit, and Paladin level to damage with their Smite Evil.........
    Last edited by Paul H; 2010-03-30 at 09:14 AM.

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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    - Animated Heavy Steel Shield [PF Core]
    Animated Shields got a hit in PF too, it's move action to get it floating for 4 rounds, and then it takes 4 rounds to recharge.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Animated Shields got a hit in PF too, it's move action to get it floating for 4 rounds, and then it takes 4 rounds to recharge.
    Well, you have Move Actions to burn anyways. Just cast a spell in the meanwhile.
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    Default Re: [PATHFINDER] Combat Oriented Cleric

    Animated Shields in PF just shows once again, only casters can get anything nice.

    PS. well above level 5 any way, once you get a second attack and haste vital strike becomes a joke ... full attacks or bust.
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2010-03-30 at 05:16 PM.

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