3.X Warblade Optimisation

[TripperdeCleric]

I have a new player and it was suggested that instead of fighter play a warblade.


Can anyone explain and give a good setup of feats and such?

also all newbies are getting the same stats.

18
18
17
16
16
14

This is to make thier gameplay easy/fun so that they enjoy it.


Please also list all books that said features are in unless they are core.

[Draz74]

Wow. Those are good stats ... and Warblade is one of the best classes to take advantage of all of them.

If you want your Charisma to count for something, you'll need to max out Intimidate and take the Imperious Command feat. And Wisdom should probably be the 14, since it doesn't really affect anything except Will Save.

But beyond that ... it really depends. What kind of Warrior do you want to be?

The easiest Warblade style to make very, very powerful is probably to dual-wield Kukris, take enough Iron Heart maneuvers to get Stormguard Warrior, but focus mostly on Tiger Claw maneuvers left and right. Max Jump ranks for sure. And Concentration ranks. Then throw your leftover maneuvers into the choicest Diamond Mind picks.

But this is very, very flexible. Do you want to use a shield? Or a big two-handed weapon? A battlefield controller with a reach weapon? A martial artist type? A focused, stoic samurai-like warrior? These are all doable with Warblade (especially with those stats), and much, much more.

One of my Warblade characters is a quarterstaff specialist. Yeah, Warblade can actually make such a sub-par weapon be worth something.

[TripperdeCleric]

Been talking with him for about 5 minutes now and this is what we concluded.


Is there a build in which he "dances"...its more of the whole he wants to dance around the enemies and beat them senseless.

He really likes swinging hard too..so which ever is better.


Also how much is some sort of powerful fire weapon...of course depending on which one of those two specs would be better.

[Keld Denar]

Have him look into Swordsage instead of Warblade. That gives him access to Desert Wind (the dancing school), while retaining access to Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind. Wield a Falcion in both hands (hits hard) and use various Tiger Claw and Desert Wind manevuers to "dance" around foes, including one Desert Wind manevuer that simulates Dervish Dance.

[Draz74]

Been talking with him for about 5 minutes now and this is what we concluded.


Is there a build in which he "dances"...its more of the whole he wants to dance around the enemies and beat them senseless.

He really likes swinging hard too..so which ever is better.


Also how much is some sort of powerful fire weapon...of course depending on which one of those two specs would be better.

Haha, well, Warblade can really do any or all of that. Actually, what it sounds like he really wants is a Warblade/Bard, with Song of the White Raven, Dragonfire Inspiration, and Snowflake Wardance. But that's definitely in the "complicated" category.

The dancing theme sounds like he should probably focus most on Tiger Claw and having two weapons. ("Dancing Mongoose" -- look it up. And eventually Wolf Pack Tactics.) He'll still be able to hit hard too, using Tiger Claw or Stone Dragon or Diamond Mind strikes.

I guess Press the Advantage (White Raven Stance 5) and Dancing Blade Form (Iron Heart Stance 5) deserve mentioning too, but I find them a little underwhelming.

including one Desert Wind manevuer that simulates Dervish Dance.

Oooh, yeah, Desert Tempest is awesome.

[marjan]

In that case you might want to look at Dervish (CW). The class is all about dancing and hitting. Alternatively, Bard/Warblade with Song of White Raven and Slippers of Battle Dancing.

[The Glyphstone]

As as a bonus, lots of Desert Wind maneuvers (Swordsage only) do fire damage, or bonus fire damage on attacks.

[Kaiyanwang]

How does it means dance? Jumps and athletic maneuvers or actual perform skill?

He just wants a fire weapon (ask DM) or wants the weapon be enveloped by fire because it's an ability of the character?

Ninjaed 864198634 times.

Goodnight, guys

[TripperdeCleric]

So is swordsage what I should switch it to? Or is warblade better in the damage department?

Also Im trying to optimise a Warblade so can yall give some ideas on how to do that and feats and where the stats go....

He is going to be level 10.

When yall tell me about stances keep in mind I have no clue what yall mean by all that stuff..can yall go in depth in your explanations?

@above:

He wants a fire weapon..not a class skill to do it..he wants a flaming (weapon) strapped to his waist or back depending on size.

Also by dance he means jump and move around..he is a big fan of drizzt from the forgotten realm series.

He wants the character to out maneuver the opponent.

[The Glyphstone]

The problem is that we have a limit on how in-depth we can go without violating the board rules, which prevent us from sharing copyrighted material (such as quoting verbatim from the book).

Honestly, Warblades are very difficult to un-optimize. Just take maneuvers that look fun, and you're good to go.

For this character, though, I'd say taking lots of Tiger Claw maneuvers is good. Dual-wield kukris, invest skill ranks in Jump and Tumble, and he can be bouncing all over the place like a crazed sword-wielding pinball.

Stances are semi-permanent effects a martial adept can have, sort of like a marshal's auras. You can know more than one, but only use one at a time, and it takes a swift action to change between them.

[TripperdeCleric]

The problem is that we have a limit on how in-depth we can go without violating the board rules, which prevent us from sharing copyrighted material (such as quoting verbatim from the book).

Honestly, Warblades are very difficult to un-optimize. Just take maneuvers that look fun, and you're good to go.

For this character, though, I'd say taking lots of Tiger Claw maneuvers is good. Dual-wield kukris, invest skill ranks in Jump and Tumble, and he can be bouncing all over the place like a crazed sword-wielding pinball.

Stances are semi-permanent effects a martial adept can have, sort of like a marshal's auras. You can know more than one, but only use one at a time, and it takes a swift action to change between them.

Ok and this is all in tomb of battle?

Ill look into the styles and such to figure it all out.

[AslanCross]

Been talking with him for about 5 minutes now and this is what we concluded.


Is there a build in which he "dances"...its more of the whole he wants to dance around the enemies and beat them senseless.

He really likes swinging hard too..so which ever is better.


Also how much is some sort of powerful fire weapon...of course depending on which one of those two specs would be better.

There are two ways to do this:
1. Swordsage (although it has a more supernatural feel to it and as such won't be as much of a fighter as a warblade; it has the fire+mobility thing going as well)
2. Bard/Warblade: Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic plus Snowflake War Dance (Frostburn).

The Tiger Claw school has a great deal of jumping maneuvers and TWF maneuvers, so they can really help it hitting hard while keeping mobile.

EDIT: One other thing about Swordsage--the maneuver recovery mechanism is kinda slow and won't really allow him to sustain the dancing thing. Warblade has an edge over Swordsage in that respect.

[TripperdeCleric]

There are two ways to do this:
1. Swordsage (although it has a more supernatural feel to it and as such won't be as much of a fighter as a warblade; it has the fire+mobility thing going as well)
2. Bard/Warblade: Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic plus Snowflake War Dance (Frostburn).

The Tiger Claw school has a great deal of jumping maneuvers and TWF maneuvers, so they can really help it hitting hard while keeping mobile.

Ok ill have to look into it...Most likely the Bard/Warblade...is bard really necessary though in this type of dodging idea?

[Kyrthain]

For this character, though, I'd say taking lots of Tiger Claw maneuvers is good. Dual-wield kukris, invest skill ranks in Jump and Tumble, and he can be bouncing all over the place like a crazed sword-wielding pinball.

I love the phrase "Sword-wielding pinball"

In all seriousness, warblade is by far my favorite class. Just pick a weapon you like, take some maneuvers that seem cool, and unleash the melee hurt 24/7

[TripperdeCleric]

I love the phrase "Sword-wielding pinball"

In all seriousness, warblade is by far my favorite class. Just pick a weapon you like, take some maneuvers that seem cool, and unleash the melee hurt 24/7

Are they anything like a Duskblade?

and are all these maneuvers and styles found in Tome of Battle? or other books as well?

[AslanCross]

Ok ill have to look into it...Most likely the Bard/Warblade...is bard really necessary though in this type of dodging idea?

It is if he wants Snowflake War Dance (Bard song feat: Charisma bonus to attack) and Dragonfire Inspiration (Bard song feat: replaces Inspire courage and instead gives you and allies +fire damage).

There's a feat in Tome of Battle called Song of the White Raven, which allows him to stack Bard and Warblade levels for the purpose of Inspire Courage (and thus Dragonfire Inspiration) if I'm not mistaken.

A simple Tiger Claw+Iron Heart warblade would do that job as well. As was posted above, it's difficult to fail to optimize a warblade, especially with stats like those.

EDIT: Duskblade channels spells. Warblade's techniques are mundane things like striking twice, striking really wildly, striking to distract your enemy, and concentrating to strike a point. All of the support for Tome of Battle is in tome of Battle. It was one of the last 3.5 books to be published. Heck, even its errata doesn't support it.

[TripperdeCleric]

It is if he wants Snowflake War Dance (Bard song feat: Charisma bonus to attack) and Dragonfire Inspiration (Bard song feat: replaces Inspire courage and instead gives you and allies +fire damage).

There's a feat in Tome of Battle called Song of the White Raven, which allows him to stack Bard and Warblade levels for the purpose of Inspire Courage (and thus Dragonfire Inspiration) if I'm not mistaken.

A simple Tiger Claw+Iron Heart warblade would do that job as well. As was posted above, it's difficult to fail to optimize a warblade, especially with stats like those.

So what your saying is go ahead and take the bard levels..stack them...then just close my eyes and pick a style for him and he wins?

Incase I forgot to mention this I am helping them make characters because the DM got two and I got two to work on.


I am playing an Artificer and my girlfriend is playing a druid.

Therefore I am not the DM.

Also what are some cool items besides the kuris or w/e they are called to give him? he has level 10 gold amount from the dmg.

[AslanCross]

So what your saying is go ahead and take the bard levels..stack them...then just close my eyes and pick a style for him and he wins?

Incase I forgot to mention this I am helping them make characters because the DM got two and I got two to work on.


I am playing an Artificer and my girlfriend is playing a druid.

Therefore I am not the DM.

Also what are some cool items besides the kuris or w/e they are called to give him? he has level 10 gold amount from the dmg.

Well, taking bard + Warblade is a bit trickier than straightforward warblade, actually. I'm going to have to crunch it myself first if you want a surefire way (or maybe someone else could post a more definitive guide).

The schools are pretty different in their philosophies, so say, Diamond Mind (all about concentration) is not going to work well with the "jumping around hitting things" technique.

[TripperdeCleric]

anyone able to piece together a basic template for me?


Race:
Feats:
Stats:
Skill Focus:
Maneuver:
Style:
Weapon:

???

[The Glyphstone]

Are you asking for help making a character, or do you want us to just build the character for you? I'm sure someone will be willing to do it - there's plenty of people here who like making characters for the sake of making characters, but you might want to be specific in what you're looking for.

[TripperdeCleric]

Originally I was looking for help in creating it myself...but i fear this might be above my knowledge...

I think if anyone could it would be welcomed...otherwise im reading the book right now trying to piece together this monstrocity.

[jiriku]

OP, this isn't exactly what you're asking for, but hey, this is the internet. Free unsolicited advice everywhere, right?

I think you guys are biting off more than you can chew. Two players don't even know enough D&D to attempt to build their own characters. You're feeling overwhelmed. The DM is making characters instead of developing the adventure. 10th level characters are complicated, even if you've designed the character yourself. They're harder still if you haven't. For that matter, running a game for 10th level characters isn't exactly easy either.

You would be wise to ask the DM to start the game at a lower level. Like, 1st level.

Low level play in D&D can be a lot of fun. More importantly, starting at 1st level eases the introduction to the game. There are fewer powers to keep track of, fewer rules to remember. And because characters have fewer choices, it's easier for the DM to make good adventures too.

I'm not trying to disparage your character-building skills in any way, but D&D is such a great game. I'd hate for any of the new players to get turned off on the hobby just because their first game made it seem hard and confusing.

[Douglas]

The Bard recommendation was primarily for a way to get fire on his weapon, but since you said he wants that as a property of the weapon rather than a class ability it's not really relevant. Just going straight Warblade would be simpler, easier, and still plenty good.

Race: You don't want a strength penalty, but other than that pretty much anything goes. I'd recommend human or dwarf, maybe half-orc, but Warblade can work well with nearly any standard race.
Feats: Anything that's good for a fighter is good for a Warblade. If he wants to do a lot of jumping, I'd suggest Leap of the Heavens from PHB2.
Stats: Str 18, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14 is how I'd do it, and put your two levelup points in strength.
Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Jump, Martial Lore, Tumble
Maneuvers: There are a lot of good options here, and you only get to pick 8. Look over the list and pick some that look good. You get 2 5th level, 2 4th level, 2 3rd level, and 2 2nd level, with the caveat that you can pick lower level maneuvers if you want to and a few of the really low level maneuvers do remain useful at high levels. You also get 2 1st level stances and 1 5th level stance.
Style: Tiger Claw is the only discipline related to jumping. Diamond Mind also has some speed and movement options, and Iron Heart is also very good and is exclusive to the Warblade.
Weapon: Pick a big two-hander, make it Flaming, toss some other standard stuff on it, and call it done.

[Abaddon87]

To keep it simple, just work with Warblade. Your not losing anything by not taking bard lvls and such. If your player likes Drizzt, wield two swords and TWF with lots of Tiger Claw strikes peppered with Iron Heart and Diamond Mind strikes, stances and saves boosters as extra fillers. I would personally vouch for Adamantine Hurricane. Its like Whirlwind Attack x2 with a bonus to hit! It rocks!

[TripperdeCleric]

Ok thank you working on it right now..going with TWF and straight up Warblade.

Tiger is the one im sticking with since everyone seems to love it....

any other ideas are appreciated but i have begun creation

Human Warblade 10
Str 18 +2, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14
skills are being setup still
Feats are a lil bit of an issue here...he seems to want to do bit dmg and wants TWF..so thinking I might just throw him towards TWF and let him have at it

[Endarire]

Hood has a Broadcaster build for a similar occasion.

[TripperdeCleric]

Thank you ill look into it.

[Abaddon87]

If he has two flaming weapons that he is TWFing with, he will be doing pretty darn good damage alone. Add the strikes and boosts and it just rockets up the damage. Shouldnt be any worries once he actually starts fighting and using his maneuvers.

[TripperdeCleric]

Ok good here are the weapons we set him up with


+2 Flaming Burst Scimitar (he wants that type of weapon)


and a

+3 Flaming Scimitar

[AslanCross]

Ok good here are the weapons we set him up with


+2 Flaming Burst Scimitar (he wants that type of weapon)


and a

+3 Flaming Scimitar

What level is he going to be? +4 weapons cost quite a bit.