Exotic weapons for PF

[BobVosh]

Since I heavily disagree with the creators and feel that exotic weapons should get something for a feat, what would people recommend to add to the current weapons to make them worth a feat?

Obviously give spiked chain its reach back.

Hmm. Maybe make all exotic weapons martial, and use a feat to grant 1 of the weapon special abilities? Reach, disarm, etc.

[Sophismata]

Honestly, use this opportunity to kill the spiked chain. If you want something to replace it in functionality (and I have no problem with this), find a less silly weapon.

Hell, I'd probably put a Quarterstaff as a tripping/reach finesseable weapon that can attack adjacent enemies provided you had Exotic Training.

Edit: In fact, I'm going to do that. Zing.

[SethFahad]

Grand fighter class EWP.

A dip in fighter will be enough (and fair)

[Mongoose87]

In Races of War they suggest allowing fighters to become proficient with any weapon they have X amount of time to train with. Enact this rule.

[sonofzeal]

Honestly, use this opportunity to kill the spiked chain. If you want something to replace it in functionality (and I have no problem with this), find a less silly weapon.

Call it a "Meteor Hammer", give it the reach back, and make it deal Bludgeoning damage. There. Still a silly weapon, but at least a real one that actually gets used effectively.

If you want to increase verisimilitude, give it 15' reach but make it provoke every time you attack. IT's more powerful that way, but requires a bit more tactical intelligence, which is always fun.

[Fizban]

Give each exotic weapon an ability equivalent to a feat with 0-1 prerequisites. In the description, specify that this ability can only be used by people proficient with it. Good ideas include flurry, +2-4 to combat maneuver, or free combat maneuver on successful attack, maybe with a small penalty (at least for 3.5, not sure how those maneuvers would mesh in pathfinder).

Basically, make being proficient with and wielding your exotic weapon give you a feat worthy ability. Tying stuff to weapons can actually make it easier to balance, since you know they aren't going to pull some other crazy weapon out of another book and use it to mess up your feat.

[Kaiyanwang]

Take a look in SRD weapon groups and try to adapt them to PF..

Maybe increasing the groups gained at level 1.

[BobVosh]

* All nonracial exotic weapons -> Martial
* Exotic weapon -> adds ability to current weapon from: Brace, Disarm, Trip, Reach can be added to polearms
* Double weapons only cost 1x to enchant and MW

This is what I suggested in this thread.

Haven't considered stuff like flurry or free use of a CM, might need to add that. Can't look at weapon groups (SRD is blocked at work ) but I'll look later.

[Greenish]

* Exotic weapon -> adds ability to current weapon from: Brace, Disarm, Trip, Reach can be added to polearms

Reach for polearms requiring a feat? With "brace" I assume you mean readying it against charge.

No, no, you don't want to punish players for using tactics other than "I hit again", do you?

[BobVosh]

I added a bunch of stuff that required a feat before. It is a buff. Literally nothing is taken away. However, what is your recommendation to make it better worth a feat?

As for brace, etc, the descriptions are here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html
Brace: If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character (see Combat).

Polearms that previously had reach still do. However you can add reach to polearms that don't currently have it. Like a reversed short shaft.

[Greenish]

I added a bunch of stuff that required a feat before. It is a buff. Literally nothing is taken away.

Nothing is taken away by locking most combat maneuvers behind feats?

However, what is your recommendation to make it better worth a feat?

I don't know.

Polearms that previously had reach still do. However you can add reach to polearms that don't currently have it. Like a reversed short shaft.

Ah, that's kind of cool, except there are only three of them (that I can think of) and spear with reach is identical to longspear. Or did you mean that they can be used both at reach and near?

[BobVosh]

Nothing is taken away by locking most combat maneuvers behind feats?

They already were? I didn't change it.

Ah, that's kind of cool, except there are only three of them (that I can think of) and spear with reach is identical to longspear. Or did you mean that they can be used both at reach and near?

Scythe, Halberd, trident, Spear, shortspear. Short Spear would stay one handed, making it unique (1H with reach).
How about I add one of those abilities possibly with EWT to up the damage a size category?

[Greenish]

They already were? I didn't change it.

There are many martial trip/brace/disarm weapons that didn't require a feat.

Scythe, Halberd, trident, Spear, shortspear. Short Spear would stay one handed, making it unique (1H with reach).
How about I add one of those abilities possibly with EWT to up the damage a size category?

That's how most exotic weapons work, so it'd be pretty balanced.

Say, by taking the talent to make non-reach polearms have reach, would changing from reach to melee require some action by your system?

[BobVosh]

There are many martial trip/brace/disarm weapons that didn't require a feat.

They still don't. The feat allows you to add that to a weapon that previously did not have it. I think I understand your confusion now. My feat changes no weapons, nor is it required to use weapons that have that. I wish for my feat to add one of these abilities to a weapon of your choice.

That's how most exotic weapons work, so it'd be pretty balanced.

Ya I don't really see it breaking anything.

Say, by taking the talent to make non-reach polearms have reach, would changing from reach to melee require some action by your system?

Good question. Not sure yet. My first reaction is to say "no, you can't do it." However I can't tell if that is just from poor, but consistent, weapon design.

[Greenish]

They still don't. The feat allows you to add that to a weapon that previously did not have it. I think I understand your confusion now. My feat changes no weapons, nor is it required to use weapons that have that. I wish for my feat to add one of these abilities to a weapon of your choice.

Ah, that's a cool idea, though to make it worth a feat the increased damage dice is probably a good addition.

Good question. Not sure yet. My first reaction is to say "no, you can't do it." However I can't tell if that is just from poor, but consistent, weapon design.

Hmm, changing your grip on the shortspear to get the right range might be tricky in combat if your other hand is occupied too, and I'm not sure it even should get reach, since I imagine it's rather short.

For normal spear, it could be a move or swift action, and for the martial weapons it could probably be free or at most swift. Oh, and trident is one handed too, isn't it?

Halberd could be cool replacement for spiked chain if you allowed it to be used with and without reach (with the feat), but in that case you probably won't want to increase the damage die.

[Person_Man]

Here's a list of useful exotic weapons from the Haberdash thread:

The Full List of Potentially Useful Exotic Weapons

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Annulat: Planar Handbook pg 68. Thrown weapon that imposes a -2 penalty to AC against it's target. If you're going to throw something, why not make it easier to hit? It's also noteworthy that neraphim treat it as a martial weapon, making a neraphim Master Thrower/Bloodstorm Blade a tempting option.

Boomerang: Eberron Campaign setting pg 119: This weapon actually sucks. It deals less damage then most other thrown weapons. When it misses, you can make an attack roll to catch it. However, proficiency with this weapon qualifies you for the uber Boomerang Daze feat (Races of Eberron pg 108) forces anyone who takes damage from your boomerang to Save or be Dazed (one of the most powerful effects in the game) for 1 round, and Boomerang Ricochet (also RoE pg 108) which lets you hit a second adjacent target with your boomerang (potentially Dazing both) after you hit the first.

Braid Blade: Dungeon 120: 1d3, 18-20, x2. On a full attack, allows you to make an extra attack at -5, or -2 if you have 5 ranks of Tumble.

Collapsing Crescent Fan: Sandstorm, p. 96: +4 to attack any flat-footed foe. Great when combined with Iaijutsu Focus.

Composite Greatbow: Complete Warrior: Does 1d10 damage and has a 130 ft range increment. So this a good long ranged weapon for pure damage dealing.

Drow Scorpion Chain: Secrets of Xen'drik pg 137: Exactly the same as a normal Spiked Chain, except that if you happen to be a drow, you can take the Drow Skirmisher feat (which grants several proficiencies and minor bonuses) instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get proficiency with it. Not useful for Haberdash, but worth including on this list for the sake of completeness.

Elven Courtblade: Races of the Wild: 1d10, 18-20 *2. Slightly less damage then the Jovar. But this two handed weapon can be used for both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse.

Flindbar: Monster Manual III: +2 to Disarm, and when you threaten a crit (19-20 or 17-20 with any Keen effect) you get a free Disarm attempt before you roll to confirm the crit.

Foot Spike: Races of the Wild: Yet another place to hide a weapon, just in case your DM decides to have your party taken prisoner.

Glot: Frostburn: Can be used to make ranged trip attacks, and deals better damage then bolas or barbed bolas.

Goad: Frostburn: Reach weapon that deals non-lethal damage, in case you ever want to capture someone without killing them. Also gives you +2 to Handle Animal checks against Huge or bigger animals.

Greathammer: Monster Manual 4 or Races of Stone: 1d12, 19-20/x4 or just 20/x4, depending on which version you use. Also gives you +2 to Sunder a weapon or shield, but sundering your future treasure is generally a bad idea.

Harpoon: Frostburn: A harpooned creature moves at half speed, cannot charge or run, and if you attach a rope to it you can limit their movement away from you. It can be removed with a full round action, which deals damage again. Occasionally helpful for battlefield control. Or you can enchant it with Returning, and have a double damage ranged attack.

Heavy weapons: Basically a special way of constructing a metal weapon. Increases the damage die of the weapon based on a set chart. Requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield correctly. But this is no problem for Haberdash. So unless your DM is crazy enough to let you use Kaorti, then most of your weapons should be Heavy. Magic of Faerun, pg. 179.

Ice Axe: Frostburn: +4 to Climb checks.

Jovar: Planar Handbook: 2d6, 18-20, *2. With high damage and a high threat range, this is your is a respectable pure damage dealing weapon. Buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

Kaorti weapons: Fiend Folio web enhancement: *ANY* weapon can be made out of kaorti, which gives it a crit multiplier of x4. You need an EWP for a kaorti version of a weapon (even if it is already exotic), but... hey, no problem for Haberdash! Combine with a Keen Elven Courtblade or something similar for a ridiculous crit. Of course, this is a ridiculously exotic weapon, as you need to convince an Evil Outsider to make it for you (or accept the +4 LA to be a Kaorti yourself). My suggestion is that you invest in Knowledge (Planes), and ask your DM for a side quest to get one.

Lance: Not exotic, but everyone who is proficient should keep one on their mount. You never know when double damage from a charge might come in handy.

Lasso: Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 34: Using a lasso is a ranged touch attack that imposes a -2 to attack rolls and -4 on Dex (no Save).

Longstaff: Complete Adventurer: If you fight defensively or use Combat Expertise while using this weapon, you can’t be flanked. Screw you Rogues!

Mancatcher: Complete Warrior: Gives you a free Grapple attempt when you hit your enemy. Also, as long as your enemy can’t reach you, they can’t attack you or do anything other then attempt to move or escape from the grapple.

Net (PHB): Using a net is a ranged touch attack (maximum range of 10 feet) that imposes a -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dex, 1/2 movement, and you can’t charge or run (no Save).

Orc Shotput: Sword & Fist, p. 71: One of the best thrown weapons in the game: 2d6 damage, 19-20 crit, x3 multiplier. Add some Master Thrower for extra fun.

Pincer Staff: Underdark: Basically a mancatcher that deals more damage.

Razor Net: Dragon Compendium, p. 115: All the hassle of a regular net, and it does 1d6 damage.

Ritiik: Frostburn: If you successfully hit an enemy, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. Basically a weaker version of Knock-Down for free.

Scorpion Claws: +4 to Grapple checks. The bonus is unnamed, so it stacks with Improved Grapple. They're also light weapons, so no Power Attack, but yes for TWF. Sandstorm.

Sharktooth Staff: Savage Species: Gives you a free Grapple attempt when you hit your enemy. Unlike the mancatcher or pincer staff, it has no reach. But it deals the best damage. It’s also worth mentioning that they each have size restrictions.

Spiked Chain: PHB: Useful if you have a ton of reach and a potent magic weapon with an AoO build. But most of the time you can just use a glaive and a 5 ft step. If you're really in a pinch, use armor spikes.

Spinning Sword: Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136. Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. Useful if you want to be a sword and board build, or a TWF build.

Sugliin: Frostburn: Does 2d8 damage, but it’s a full round action to make 1 attack. But hey, until you get to +6 BAB, this is your weapon of choice for pure damage dealing when you’re already standing next to your enemy.

Whip Dagger: Drow of the Underdark: 15 feet of reach, which might be helpful on occasion. You can also use it with the Whip Climber Skill Trick to do Indiana Jones-ish swinging.

Yuan-Ti Serpent Bow: Secrets of Xen'drik pg 137: A bow with curved blades at the edges. You can use it as a ranged weapon or as a melee weapon interchangeably, and it is a treated as a double weapon for magical enhancements (you enchant the bow part and the blade part separately). Not that useful for Haberdash specifically, but a nifty choice for bow builds that fight in dungeons and other closed in spaces a lot.

Big standouts are the Boomerang (Daze effects), Drow Scorpion Chain (essentially a Spiked Chain), Flindbar (Disarm), Spinning Sword (one handed Spiked Chain), Ritiik (Trip), Pincer Staff (Grapple) and Kaorti weapons (*4 crit).