[3.5] Gestalt Warforged Warblade build

[Myou]

For my new campaign one of the players will be playing a warforged, and we're not sure what sort of build he should have.

He's playing a warforged with Warblade as his main class, wielding a scythe and with a hidden automatic crossbow hidden in his hand (he can fire it while his hands are full, and use it as part of a full attack, etc.), but we're not sure what to pair it with. He was interested in barbarian, for rage, but he already has pretty much every other feature of the class, so that would be a terrible waste. At the moment he's very interested in rogue, for sneak attacks (we know it's not optimal when you use THWs), skills and trapfinding, but he's not sure. Any suggestions? It doen't need to be high power as long as it's fun, and hopefully adds to his attack and defence.

His concept is a powerful protector who shields his wizard friend and is generally tank-like in attack as well as toughness.

Level 5 start, 42 point buy with a bonus of +4 to the stat you leave lowest, max HP from hit die, plus 2 extra per die from a bonus feat.

[Coy]

I understand where you are coming from in terms of placing a class as a theme on a warforged. In a sense, its coming up with a purpose for a machine, and classes like barbarians and rouges - they are more personas rather than purposes.

But the simple answer is not to overthink it. You just need to overcome that niggling little need to rationalise! Just take the class that is a balance of what is needed, and what he finds interesting.

However, if like me you just have to put a story as to who/why the character is who he is, the easiest thing is to come up with a slight modification to existing classes.

Reading what hes after, why not have him play a ranger of some sort - Full BAB, decent saves for a tank, lots of skills. Just swap the weapon feats for something more appropriate, and swap out favoured enemies for a fair amount of DR. Job done!

[Roc Ness]

You gotta scythe. Symbol of death, etc. Really symbolic thing for a Warforged to have, what with the general "live-forever 'till final battle thing." /contemplation

That said, what about Duskblade? Int runs well with the Warblade, you get nice will saves, and Arcane Channelling with a few useful spells to pair with your abilities. It's also a nice side use for the concentration skill if the Warforged is gonna use Diamond Mind maneuveurs, and you think about using the full-attack arcane channelling ability in conjunction with some of the Iron Heart/Tiger Claw/Diamond Mind maneveurs.

Heck, you know how they say the Wizard is its own greatest enemy? Go into Suel Arcanamach, they're supposed to have nice anti-caster options...


Oh yeah! I just thought of something! Are Warforged made with iron hearts and diamond minds?

[HunterOfJello]

Duskblade works very well with a Warblade. Crusader or Swordsage would also be good.

In general you should look for a class that has abilities that compliment the ones he already has.





Factotum and Psion are popular for warblade gesalt builds. If the player wants a really broken character then he could take wizard or archivist which would mix well with his super high Int. Bard would also be good and provide several nice options.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Oh yeah! I just thought of something! Are Warforged made with iron hearts and diamond minds?

That depends; do they dream of electric sheep?

[Myou]

I understand where you are coming from in terms of placing a class as a theme on a warforged. In a sense, its coming up with a purpose for a machine, and classes like barbarians and rouges - they are more personas rather than purposes.

But the simple answer is not to overthink it. You just need to overcome that niggling little need to rationalise! Just take the class that is a balance of what is needed, and what he finds interesting.

However, if like me you just have to put a story as to who/why the character is who he is, the easiest thing is to come up with a slight modification to existing classes.

Reading what hes after, why not have him play a ranger of some sort - Full BAB, decent saves for a tank, lots of skills. Just swap the weapon feats for something more appropriate, and swap out favoured enemies for a fair amount of DR. Job done!

Oh, that's a nice idea, thanks, I'll mention it to him - see what he thinks.

You gotta scythe. Symbol of death, etc. Really symbolic thing for a Warforged to have, what with the general "live-forever 'till final battle thing." /contemplation

That said, what about Duskblade? Int runs well with the Warblade, you get nice will saves, and Arcane Channelling with a few useful spells to pair with your abilities. It's also a nice side use for the concentration skill if the Warforged is gonna use Diamond Mind maneuveurs, and you think about using the full-attack arcane channelling ability in conjunction with some of the Iron Heart/Tiger Claw/Diamond Mind maneveurs.

Heck, you know how they say the Wizard is its own greatest enemy? Go into Suel Arcanamach, they're supposed to have nice anti-caster options...


Oh yeah! I just thought of something! Are Warforged made with iron hearts and diamond minds?

xD

Duskblade is more caster-like then he wanted - we have two full casters already, but it could work, another idea to suggest.
What does the Suel Arcanamach do?

Duskblade works very well with a Warblade. Crusader or Swordsage would also be good.

In general you should look for a class that has abilities that compliment the ones he already has.

Factotum and Psion are popular for warblade gesalt builds. If the player wants a really broken character then he could take wizard or archivist which would mix well with his super high Int. Bard would also be good and provide several nice options.

Would Crusader work well with Warblade? I'd have thought that there's be quite a lot of redundancy, but I guess it unlocks more disciplines? :o

Factotum! That's an idea! I'll definitely suggest that, it's probably the best idea - I really ought to have thought of it myself. =D

[AbyssKnight]

Warmage...he needs more War in the character. :P

I would consider Scout, and building the character into an ubercharger.

[Myou]

Warmage...he needs more War in the character. :P

I would consider Scout, and building the character into an ubercharger.

Aren't so called 'uberchargers' stupidly powerful? He'd just one hit kill whatever he attacks, all that does is force me to make all the enemies able to evade his attacks - it's no fun for anyone. Oh, and it makes his warblade levels redundant.

[PinkysBrain]

He was interested in barbarian

Frenzied Berserker is always a laugh.

[Eldariel]

Ubercharger is, but you don't need to build the Ubercharger. Just plain old Charger will do and deal notably less damage, though it's worth remembering that Warblades optimize themselves so doing too much is a recipe for problems in low-powered games.

It's worth noting that Barbarian ACFs really work nicely on a Warblade; Wolf-totem Barbarian gets Improved Trip instead of the redundant Uncanny Dodge, and switching Fast Movement for Pounce is pretty damn efficient (this combines with many charge-maneuvers like Bounding Assault, Battle Leader's Charge and such to great effect). Rage is good as ever, especially if you pick up Extra Rage.

So...yeah, Barbarian 2 would be nice. After that, I'd definitely consider multiclassing to something more useful tho.

[term1nally s1ck]

Warblade is an active class, so you want to pair it with something passive: Either a buffing class,or something that gives bonuses to other things. Rogue is good, as would be a caster who focuses on buffing.

You have full BAB already, so don't limit yourself to martial classes...maybe a psion of some sort? Expansion and the other buffing powers are excellent for a melee char.

I'd personally go with a cloistered cleric, grab knowledge devotion, and use DMM to buff yourself silly with persistent spells.

[Draz74]

Yeah, Factotum has the skills and Trapfinding he's looking for, and INT synergy, and is terribly good in Gestalt anyway because of Cunning Surge (which will allow the Warblade to make an extra Strike at least once an encounter). It's pretty much ideal.

[term1nally s1ck]

Well, if his DM is allowing Factotum, go for it. (Though I'd still consider a dip into Cloistered Cleric to get at least 1 devotion for free (knowledge), and any other devotion of your choice, plus the undeath domain for an extra 3 TU uses to power the other devotion.)

Factotum//Anything is usually the strongest gestalt class, only beaten by using psionics to break action economy on one side.

[Myou]

Thanks for your suggestions, everyone, he's reading the thread and deciding now. :3

Psion is out because we don't use psionics, and as I said, full casters are out too - it's meant to be a purely martial character.

[Draz74]

Factotum//Anything is usually the strongest gestalt class, only beaten by using psionics to break action economy on one side.

Mmmm, I disagree unless the other half of the build has INT synergy. (Which Warblade does.) And unlike Factotum//Wizard, Factotum//Psion, or Factotum//Archivist, I don't think Factotum//Warblade will break the game. Only because of these conditions did I recommend Factotum.

[Myou]

Mmmm, I disagree unless the other half of the build has INT synergy. (Which Warblade does.) And unlike Factotum//Wizard, Factotum//Psion, or Factotum//Archivist, I don't think Factotum//Warblade will break the game. Only because of these conditions did I recommend Factotum.

Sadly he decided he doesn't like Factotum. xD
Oh well!

[Telonius]

Why not Artificer? It'll save him on healing. Warforged Artificer substitution levels are nifty - especially the "Infuse Self" ones. Craft feats make Wizards happy, and so does backup spellcasting. It has trapfinding, so he can do a bit of skillmonkeying.

[Myou]

Why not Artificer? It'll save him on healing. Warforged Artificer substitution levels are nifty - especially the "Infuse Self" ones. Craft feats make Wizards happy, and so does backup spellcasting. It has trapfinding, so he can do a bit of skillmonkeying.

The artificier who made him is already in the party. xD
He wants to be a purely martial character.

He's decided on barbarian, trading trap sense, uncanny dodge and imp. for DR equal to his class level. :3

[Hawk7915]

Tragedy. Before he commits to that, go for Knight as a last chance...at least then he'll have two good saves and some interesting tank options. Since the man who built him is in the party, he can be a bodyguard.

[Myou]

Tragedy. Before he commits to that, go for Knight as a last chance...at least then he'll have two good saves and some interesting tank options. Since the man who built him is in the party, he can be a bodyguard.

Why tragedy?

[marjan]

Why tragedy?

Because the only thing the barb will get him is Rage. Not that rage is bad, but you could be getting more things.

[HunterOfJello]

Crusader or Factotum would be better. Crusaders get AMAZING tanking abilities and Factotums get EVERYTHING.


Warblades and Crusaders both get short lists of maneuvers that they can choose from. If the Warblade side focused on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and possibly Tiger Claw then the Crusader Side could focus on White Raven, Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon.

As a Factotum he could play the rampaging Warblade on one side and Inspector Gagdet on the other being able to randomly bust out every single skill use on a whim.

~~

If the player is interested in getting Rage as a class ability, I would suggest diping in Barbarian for 2 levels max, then taking more levels of Warblade or Factotum instead of staying with the Barbarian line. With the Extra Rage feat, 1 to 2 levels are the most anyone should take Barbarian for, especially considering that Warblades get uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge on their own.

[Telonius]

As a Factotum he could play the rampaging Warblade on one side and Inspector Gagdet on the other being able to randomly bust out every single skill use on a whim.

Considering this build will fight MAD, I'd call it a winner.

[Myou]

Crusader or Factotum would be better. Crusaders get AMAZING tanking abilities and Factotums get EVERYTHING.


Warblades and Crusaders both get short lists of maneuvers that they can choose from. If the Warblade side focused on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and possibly Tiger Claw then the Crusader Side could focus on White Raven, Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon.

As a Factotum he could play the rampaging Warblade on one side and Inspector Gagdet on the other being able to randomly bust out every single skill use on a whim.

~~

If the player is interested in getting Rage as a class ability, I would suggest diping in Barbarian for 2 levels max, then taking more levels of Warblade or Factotum instead of staying with the Barbarian line. With the Extra Rage feat, 1 to 2 levels are the most anyone should take Barbarian for, especially considering that Warblades get uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge on their own.

I argued for both crusader and factotum, but he doesn't like either, and wants rage progression.
He's trading the redundant dodges for more damage reduction, which he loves.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's a suggestion:

Urban Ranger. You get Skillmonkey, you get interesting abilities, you get synergy with Warblade. You already get Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge, Urban Ranger nets you Evasion.

Find a way to get Mettle on the cheap, and you have a regular Mr. NO.

[term1nally s1ck]

Main problem with Barb//Warblade is that his will and reflex saves are bad. In gestalt, when you'll be against CR+1/+2 enemies, that's a BIG deal.

[Mongoose87]

Convince him to just dip Barbrian, for rage, then take Extra rage, so he can do it plenty.

[AbyssKnight]

Aren't so called 'uberchargers' stupidly powerful? He'd just one hit kill whatever he attacks, all that does is force me to make all the enemies able to evade his attacks - it's no fun for anyone. Oh, and it makes his warblade levels redundant.

I am glad he made a decision and likes his class combination.

In reference to your reply, though, it all depends on how optimized he makes him. There are a whole slew of things that work well with charging, he can pick and choose what he wants to use.

Scout is one thing that works well for someone who charges as movement is needed to trigger Skirmish. And I don't think any of the most OP Uberchargers I have seen used Scout levels. Scout also gives saves and skills, and some good class features, to add to a gestalt melee warrior.

And nothing makes Warblade redundant. There are several martial strikes that let you charge. Or you can focus more on boosts. But Warblade levels would still be very relevant on a charging build.

[Escheton]

Psion, selfhealing and other awesome stuff
not allowed? wizard. Take phoenix mage.

it gives you loads of awesome options, even if you dont see yourself as a magetype, remains friggin usefull

didnt bother to read beyond caption, so if im redundant, so be it

[PinkysBrain]

Main problem with Barb//Warblade is that his will and reflex saves are bad. In gestalt, when you'll be against CR+1/+2 enemies, that's a BIG deal.

Reflex doesn't matter much for a Frenzied Berserker after he gets undying frenzy.