[3.5] Best combos in a game that uses the "low tier class=free gestalt" option?

[deuxhero]

The tier list suggests giving tier 3 and 4s a gestalt with an NPC class and lower tiers a full gestalt with other such low tier classes.

Hypothetically, what are the best combination to use if in a game with such a ruling?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The tier list suggests giving tier 3 and 4s a gestalt with an NPC class and lower tiers a full gestalt with other such low tier classes.

Hypothetically, what are the best combination to use if in a game with such a ruling?

TWF rogue// warrior?? IIRC they get full bab, a better HD and posibly a better save don't remember though.

Checked, the above gestatl would have D8 HD full bab, good fort and reflex saves, massive skill points, rogue goodies and full BAB. sounds sturdy to me, while a bit similar to plain ranger....

[deuxhero]

Warlock//CW Samurai has intimidate use and is pretty good glaive use.

Oh and for PRCs treat them as literal according to their ranking (a +1 prc and a tier 4 class is treated as tier 3 for the purposes of this)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say Fighter//Adept, you get spells like Bull's Strength, Mirror Image, Polymorph, and even Heal. Be sure to use Dungeoncrasher and take the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels. You can even get Improved Familiar for a pretty tough pet, especially if it's an Outsider and you Polymorph it.

[Gnaeus]

I would look at Dread Necromancer//Warrior or Aristocrat. A dread necro with D8s for his HP and full BaB is a pretty nasty meleer.

Crusader or Warblade//Adept is pretty awesome as well.

[Mongoose87]

I would look at Dread Necromancer//Warrior or Aristocrat. A dread necro with D8s for his HP and full BaB is a pretty nasty meleer.

Crusader or Warblade//Adept is pretty awesome as well.

Paladin 4/Crusader x/RKV//Adept

[deuxhero]

I would look at Dread Necromancer//Warrior or Aristocrat. A dread necro with D8s for his HP and full BaB is a pretty nasty meleer.

I think CW Samurai is the better choice for Dread Necro as both classes have an intimidate focus.

[tyckspoon]

General principle: If your first class doesn't already cast spells, pairing it with Adept is probably a good idea.


X//Expert also has some attraction with Expert's Build Your Own Skill Monkey nature.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paladin 4/Crusader x/RKV//Adept

PARTIAL GESTALT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

[Mongoose87]

PARTIAL GESTALT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

You'd lose your adept levels for the levels you have RKV, right?

[Ernir]

An ungestalted tier 1 or 2 would still be the most powerful choice in many cases, I think.


Is there ever a reason to take Warrior if CW Samurai is available? The Samurai has crappy class features, but at least it has them.

[deuxhero]

Said class features have a code of conduct (Breaking of access to a somewhat better PRC it is normally the best thing you can do with that class though)

[Soranar]

Obviously the best options should be 2 lower tier classes (5,6 or 7) or a tier 3 with expert

I think I'd play this though

bit cheesy but Gestalt usually is

Monk/Swashbuckler

Race: Gray Elf (despite Con hit, still a solid choice with this build)
Alignment: any Lawful

Full BAB
All high Saves

STATS (30 pts buy)

STR 6 (dump)
DEX 18 (main stat)
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 8 (dump)
CHA 8 (dump)

FEATS
- Carmendine monk (Int instead of Wis for AC)
- martial study
- martial stance
- shadow blade
- daring outlaw (qualify through martial stance: assassin's stance)
- sun school (may make 1 attack at highest BAB after abundant step or dimension door)
- improved crit : unarmed strike (could be swapped for something else)

monk: could use a variant, but again not sure which would benefit the most

strengths

you only need 3 stats so magic items and buffs won't be that expensive

AC: Swashbuckler gives you +4 AC against 1 opponent, Monk gives you +4 against all, your touch AC should be really high all things considered

you get still mind + slippery mind + high will saves

improved evasion + grace bonus+ very high DEX and high reflex saves

decent Fort Saves

and if all else fails you're also lucky

typical fight

run/teleport to someone in the surprise run, stun him (also a sneak attack), if it works you get to flurry him on top of the sneak attack next turn

or sneak to someone, flurry them (hopefully to death)

should you crit you also give Con and Str damage

[deuxhero]

Wow, that build is really... SAD Sorry..

I'd take Lesser Tiefling though (+2 int +2dex -2cha>+2 int -2con)

[Soranar]

Wow, that build is really... SAD Sorry..

I'd take Lesser Tiefling though (+2 int +2dex -2cha>+2 int -2con)

I didn't know lesser tiefling existed (I thought only the Aasimar kind did) otherwise definitely preferable

[Knaight]

The tier list suggests giving tier 3 and 4s a gestalt with an NPC class and lower tiers a full gestalt with other such low tier classes.

Huh. Adept is really a lot better than the tier 5 and 6 classes anyways, so why not take it?

[deuxhero]

Same reason Druid//Wizard isn't that good a build, it's all active abilities with no passives when you still only have 1 action.

[gallagher]

Psychic Warrior(X+2)//Fighter2/FullBAB class X

you get Full BAB as a Psychic warrior, which is pretty much all they were missing. i mean, heck, going Psychic Warrior//Fighter the whole way and use your fighter feats for martial stances would make you very formidable.

it wouldnt even be too MAD. you need Wis, Str, Con, and not much else. put a 13 in INT for combat expertise, and put a few ranks in tumble (another benefit from psychic warrior). and, of course, you dont really need CHA.

[Optimystik]

Wow, that build is really... SAD Sorry..

I'd take Lesser Tiefling though (+2 int +2dex -2cha>+2 int -2con)

Nitpick: While I agree that Lesser Tiefling is better, keep in mind that the Grey Elf bonuses are in addition to the standard elf bonuses - they do not replace them.

So a Grey Elf actually gets +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Str. The Con hit is still bad, but they get both Int and Dex buffs just like LTs do.

Also, Lesser Tiefling is in PGtF, so some DMs may consider it setting specific. (It really shouldn't be, but there's always the chance.) Grey Elf is more universal.

[Gnaeus]

I think CW Samurai is the better choice for Dread Necro as both classes have an intimidate focus.

A better choice, if it were legal.

These are the gestalt rules OP linked to.

"Partial Gestalt. Tier 1s and 2s are normal. Tier 3s and 4s may gestalt their levels with an NPC class of their choice (Adept, Expert, Commoner, or Warrior). Tier 5s and 6s may gestalt their levels with any other Tier 5 or 6 class of their choice, or Adepts. ......."

Psi-Warrior//Fighter is also illegal for the same reason, although you could Swordsage or Psi-Warrior//Warrior.

[Tackyhillbillu]

I'd be tempted to try out Warblade//Knight. Eliminate the need for that one Devoted Spirit Stance everyone takes.

[Tinydwarfman]

Hmm, I allways thought partial gestalt was something along the lines of tier 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, etc.

[Indon]

Hmm. Marshal//Dragon Whateverhastheauras Disciple seems like it would be a good support class, on par with a more heavily optimized bard. Similarly, Marshal//Paladin for sweet charisma synergy.

Rogue//Incarnate would have the most awesomest skills ever.

Monk//Incarnate or even Monk//Soulborn strikes me as interesting combos of low-power classes to make something more potent than the whole.

Healer//Adept would have strong utility potential.

[strider24seven]

- daring outlaw (qualify through martial stance: assassin's stance)

This gives you nothing, as SA is given through a feat, not a class in this case. If you took levels in Swordsage, however, it would work fine.

However, it's otherwise a pretty vicious build.

And to the above, Dragon Disciple is a PrC, not a base class.

If I were building a gestalt like this, I would just do Fighter//NonFullBABClass or FullBABClass//Adept.

[Gnaeus]

I'd be tempted to try out Warblade//Knight. Eliminate the need for that one Devoted Spirit Stance everyone takes.

Also not legal based on the partial gestalt rules OP referenced. Knight is not an NPC class.

Hmm, I allways thought partial gestalt was something along the lines of tier 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, etc.

There are lots of ways to do it. I prefer tier 1/no gestalt, 2/6, 3/5, 4+/4+.

Hmm. Marshal//Dragon Whateverhastheauras Disciple seems like it would be a good support class, on par with a more heavily optimized bard. Similarly, Marshal//Paladin for sweet charisma synergy.

Marshal is tier 4, and can only be gestalted with NPC classes under this system. Illegal. Maybe it SHOULD be tier 5, but that is a different thread.

Rogue//Incarnate would have the most awesomest skills ever.

Yes, but Rogue is tier 4, and can only be gestalted with NPC classes under this system. Illegal.

Monk//Incarnate or even Monk//Soulborn strikes me as interesting combos of low-power classes to make something more potent than the whole.

I dunno the tier of Incarnate or Soulborn, and am not willing to search through all the tier thread to find them. Only legal if they are tier 5.

[strider24seven]

I'd be tempted to try out Warblade//Knight. Eliminate the need for that one Devoted Spirit Stance everyone takes.

Thicket of Blades trumps the Knight's Bulwark of Defense in all cases, anyway. For example(s):
1)Elocater: Avoids difficult terrain- beats BoD, still gets whacked by ToB
2)Classes that ignore difficult terrain (Scout?)- beats BoD, not Tob

And BoD only stops people from taking 5' steps. ToB lets you whack them for it! Which can stop them if you have Stand Still/Knockdown.

Perhaps the only time that Thicket of Blades doen't beat out Bulwark of Defense is an effect that blocks line of effect. Like a wall. So no attacks of opportunity to stop people in their tracks. Arguably, though, you can't create difficult terrain when you can't see the terrain. So, Bulwark of Defense possibly doesn't work here either.

And ftw: Rogue//Warrior. It's a sneak-attack Fighter with skills!

[Mushroom Ninja]

CA Ninja/Adept

Use the Deceptive Mist variant from Dragon 354 which lets you trade out some of the ninja's crappy invisibility ki powers to get a solid fog that you can walk through. Then Dip a level of Shiba Protector from OA for Wis to Attack and Damage (alternatively you can take zen archery, but it's not as fun).

You now have a SAD sneaky caster.

[Soranar]

Just thought of something decent

Fighter/ninja

using crossbows

Sudden strike works well with ranged weapons anyway, you get plenty of feats to use with said crossbow.

high Fort, high Ref and high WIS for will saves

High BAB, d10 health, x6 skills and you only need DEX, CON, WIS

[Magikeeper]

Is there a rule that you can't multiclass gestalt? If you can, then I think the best idea would be to take just enough levels of warrior to have full BAB and then put the rest into an NPC casting class (For tiers 3-4).

[Amphetryon]

Hexblade//Samurai with Imperious Command has some decent CHA synergy for a debuff-focused gish.