Pathfinder Optimizers... Get in Here! [3.5 fanboys may be interested]

[Zovc]

I just got back from "dinner" with two friends. One of them I hadn't seen in quite some time, and he is now in love with Pathfinder.

Let's get this out of the way: I don't hate Pathfinder, and I never gave it a fair chance. I just opened the book while volunteering at a friend's hobby shop, saw that Wizards and Sorcerers were given class features, and was done with it. Seeing Pathfinder's Team's opinion of 3.5 Psionics made me respect the system a lot less, actually. Regardless, I don't want this thread to be a debate about how good/bad broken/fixed Pathfinder is. The purpose of this thread is to make as many overpowered characters in a small amount of time as possible!

So, as I've said, I'm extremely unfamiliar with Pathfinder, I'm working on "learning me some rules" right now.

Where should I look if I want to find broken stuff, and what broken stuff would you be willing to serve me on a silver platter?

I suppose it is worth noting that I'm not going to a friendly game session trying to break the game. The entire purpose of us meeting up tomorrow is to give me an opportunity to demonstrate how P-finder can be broken.

[Tinydwarfman]

Be a wizard.

[arguskos]

Be a wizard.

Or a druid. Or a sorcerer. Not enough changed for those three to make them NOT the best thing ever.

Alternatively, go check out the Oracle and Summoner on the PF SRD.

[Zovc]

Would 3.5 guides for the suggested classes do a good enough job of pointing me to "win" spells, or have certain problem spells been fixed, and other spells become problem spells?

[arguskos]

Would 3.5 guides for the suggested classes do a good enough job of pointing me to "win" spells, or have certain problem spells been fixed, and other spells become problem spells?

Biggest change: Polymorph is highly altered, but still rocks pretty hard (just not AS hard). Normal stuff like Planar Binding, Gate, etc are all unchanged, or so negligibly changed it doesn't matter.

Note: I personally like PF, but they really did drop the ball on the spell changes.

[Gametime]

Would 3.5 guides for the suggested classes do a good enough job of pointing me to "win" spells, or have certain problem spells been fixed, and other spells become problem spells?

Almost universally, the spells that were good are still good. Some minor offenders were significantly nerfed (grease comes to mind), some heavy hitters were changed but are still effective (such as divine power), and some spells were inexplicably untouched (such as perennial favorite time stop).

One thing they did do a decent job of fixing was effects that change your shape. Since they merely boost your ability scores and grant you some qualities from a relatively short list, beast shape (and, thus, wild shape) and its brethren aren't nearly as impressive as their 3.5 counterparts. Druids are still better than any noncaster, but they lost more than any of the other full casters now that they actually have to have physical stats.

But in general, the new boss is the same as the old boss. Save-or-die spells still rock the world.

[Zovc]

Okay, so my friend is convinced that Evocation is awesome, so I'm intending to give up evocation on a specialist wizard. That'll be where I start.

My friend told me I can download the rulebooks free somewhere, is this true, or was he telling me to pirate the books? XD

[Eldariel]

Okay, so my friend is convinced that Evocation is awesome, so I'm intending to give up evocation on a specialist wizard. That'll be where I start.

My friend told me I can download the rulebooks free somewhere, is this true, or was he telling me to pirate the books? XD

The beta books are free. The final version does cost tho. But Pathfinder Reference Document contains everything you need anyways. So meh.

[Zovc]

This Arcane School business is new to me. Because I'll likely give up Evocation, Conjuration and Transmutation both seem nice in that they give me 'blasty' abilities, the fact that they function as touch attacks also makes my potentially low physical attributes seem like less of a problem.

Tramsmutation seems cool, but also probably more "meh" than Conjuration. Being able to net two actions from one at level one with Summon Monster I seems pretty neat.

At a glance, these 1st level spells seem like they could be nice:
Obscuring Mist, it seems like it could give everyone a hard time, but doesn't look like it could end an encounter on its own.
Summon Monster I seems like it could be alright, if I'm conjuration bound. I can summon an Eagle, which can potentially get three attacks in one round.
Sleep if I'm not mistaken, this is THE "win" spell early-game. Am I mistaken?
Color Spray seems a lot more awesome than I remember. I used to think Burning Hands was dangerous... jeez!

I glazed over the Evocation spells, but none of them seem like they could have one-shotted a fighter at level 1, anyways.

I'll stick my nose into the higher level spells slowly.

[Zovc]

2nd-level spells that stick out at me:

Acid Arrow is not particularly deadly, only 4d4 damage at level 3 (2d4, then 2d4), but it has a rather respectable range.

Summon monster II I haven't seen what cool stuff can be made, but I imagine there's something scary in there.

Summon Swam I'm not educated enough on the game's rules to know whether or not this is potent, but it seems like it could be.

Web seems pretty brutal, can possibly isolate myself from an entire combat. Lasts 30 minutes at level 3.

Hideous Laughter is pretty funny.

Mirror Image seems like a strong defensive spell.

Blindness/Deafness is pretty mean, but probably not worth some of my only level 2 spell slots.

Ghoul Touch seems like a risk/reward spell. To be sure, is a paralyzed target helpless?

Rope Trick is just silly. At level 8+, it gives me enough time to safely rest and re-prepare spells, right?

[Tinydwarfman]

Or a druid. Or a sorcerer. Not enough changed for those three to make them NOT the best thing ever.

Alternatively, go check out the Oracle and Summoner on the PF SRD.

One thing, druids are definitely not as powerful. Wildshape has been seriously nerfed, as well as some companions. If you use the SRD summoner though, you won't be disappointed. Good spell list, and the Eidolon (personal bodyguard) is ridiculous. Easily outshines the barbarian. You're playing two characters.

[Zovc]

If you use the SRD summoner though, you won't be disappointed. Good spell list, and the Eidolon (personal bodyguard) is ridiculous. Easily outshines the barbarian. You're playing two characters.

Oh, this is perfect! I get a second character who has 2d10 HP and a +2 base attack bonus at level 1.

What's more is that Pathfinder's team made this class on their own, if I'm not mistaken.

Sure, I'm losing out on a lot of cool spells, but I can just cast Shield and use a crossbow while my eidolon does all the work.

[Tahoo]

as far as wizards go, mayhaps this well help you.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ac...dwM2ZjeA&hl=en