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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Dungeons and dragons Elements

    So, while D&D's elements are traditional, are they the best?

    Alot of other systems have widely different versions of elements after all. While Fire, lightning and ice ect. are pretty widespread, Shadow and Light damage (positive and negative energy are practically almost an element already.... just without being recognized) are pretty widespread in other systems. Additionally, things like fire/earth/wind/water exist in alot of other ones, while sonic or acid aren't exactly easy to come by.



    What are your views on how D&D does elements?
    Last edited by krossbow; 2010-04-07 at 10:13 PM.
    Monk sucks, but you know, it's not actually worth negative LA.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    I more or less approve. I find them lacking sometimes, but I can usually think of a good reason why. Like, for instance, earth damage. I'd like to see it, but I think D&D's approach is that in 'earth damage' what's really killing you is the concussive force (ditto with water, when you aren't drowning in it), whereas with fire, lightning and cold, what's killing you is the heat, shock and cold.

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    If by "elements" you mean "energy types," D&D has a fair amount. If you mean actual elements, it has about the same number as other mythologies/systems.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Tome of Battle has untyped damage from Shadow Hand maneuvers that are pretty much shadow damage.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    If by "elements" you mean "energy types," D&D has a fair amount. If you mean actual elements, it has about the same number as other mythologies/systems.

    Well, D&D has more or less 5 main ones they had as their intent/focus, as shown by the protection from energy spell. As the games gone along they've modified things as they've realized how much more stuff their is that they need to worry about.


    I'm not supporting/coming down on things either way, just wondering how others feel about how D&D handles such things.
    Monk sucks, but you know, it's not actually worth negative LA.

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    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    The funny thing is that even water can deal fire damage (steam, for example) and [Fire] type spells can deal bludgeoning damage (Earth Reaver creates a ground explosion that sends rocks flying). Energy damage isn't tied so much to elements as they are tied to the spell effects, which I think makes magic a bit more interesting when compared to say, Final Fantasy's usual 8-element system (Fire/Ice/Lightning/Earth/Wind/Water/Poison/Holy), in which most offensive spells are pure applications of the energy type.


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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    4e has the following energy types:

    1. Acid
    2. Cold
    3. Fire
    4. Force
    5. Lightning
    6. Necrotic
    7. Poison
    8. Psychic
    9. Radiant
    10. Thunder

    With the exception of Fire, none of these damage types directly correspond to a specific element. For example, an earth spell that hurls a rock at an opponent would deal untyped damage while a shockwave that travels across the ground would deal Thunder damage.

    Disease is technically a damage type, but there are currently no powers that directly deal Disease damage. For example, a dire rat's bite deals untyped damage but inflicts Filth Fever on its victim. Untyped can be considered a 12th type.

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    Morty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    I think D&D presentation of elements would work fine if there was no correlation between metaphysical "elements" and energy damage/resistance types. They ought to be separate, so when some parts of the game - like that one PrC in Complete Arcane - start making connections between the two, it doesn't make much sense.
    Last edited by Morty; 2010-04-08 at 10:57 AM.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    I want to cast Titanium Ball myself :)

    The main thing I find strange abut D&D elements is that acid somehow gets through SR whilst the rest don't ? Even Acid Splash will do this.

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    DeltaEmil's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Isn't acid-damage tied to Earth? At least, when you energy-substitute a fire-ball into an earth-elemental fire-ball without the firepart, it becomes an acid-ball.

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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Complete Arcane brought Wood, Meat, and Air as energy types.
    And this forum invented Candy energy type.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Complete Arcane brought Wood, Meat, and Air as energy types.
    And this forum invented Candy energy type.
    Ummm... I think you mean Metal, which is an element choice for the Wu Jen. There are, IIRC, no new energy types in CArc.

    The thing with acid bypassing SR is in the acid being non-magical itself. Magic created it but has no effect on its continued or discontinued existence.

    I think D&D uses elements/energy types fairly well. It does use rather original energy types, at least, and it hasn't missed anything major.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    No, I meant Meat. It was sadly not included in the book, but we know better. Yes, we does.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    No, I meant Meat. It was sadly not included in the book, but we know better. Yes, we does.
    We can see that, only the most enlightened refer to themselves in plural form.

    To be on-topic, Meat damage would be covered in D&D by bludgeoning damage, possibly piercing if you include bones. Cold or fire damage could be dealt in addition if said meat is incredibly cold or hot, respectively.

    Edit: Wait, did you mean it was a shame the book did not come with free meat? We agree, that would have been an incredible way to get more buyers.
    Last edited by ScionoftheVoid; 2010-04-08 at 02:18 PM.

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    4e has the following energy types:

    1. Acid
    2. Cold
    3. Fire
    4. Force
    5. Lightning Electric
    6. Necrotic Negative
    7. Poison
    8. Psychic Divine
    9. Radiant Positive
    10. Thunder Sonic
    3.5 has the above types (some fixed.) There's probably more I'm forgetting.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    3.5 has the above types (some fixed.) There's probably more I'm forgetting.
    Vile is missing. Divine damage is effectively untyped, but is only used as the other half of the damage in certain Divine spells so it got a cool name (or was no in fact meant to be a type but the wording was sloppy).

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by ScionoftheVoid View Post
    Vile is missing. Divine damage is effectively untyped, but is only used as the other half of the damage in certain Divine spells so it got a cool name (or was no in fact meant to be a type but the wording was sloppy).
    It is a type; it just so happens to be irresistible, which makes it hard to interact with.

    I forgot Vile, thanks for that.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    3.5 has the above types (some fixed.) There's probably more I'm forgetting.
    Regardless of whether Divine is an energy type or not, I wouldn't replace Psychic on that list with it. There are psionic characters, after all. I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading that that was a separate type from everything else.

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaulesh View Post
    Regardless of whether Divine is an energy type or not, I wouldn't replace Psychic on that list with it. There are psionic characters, after all. I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading that that was a separate type from everything else.
    While there are indeed psionic characters in 3.5, purely psionic attacks (like Ultrablast, Dissipating Touch, and Hostile Empathic Transfer) deal untyped damage. There is no "psychic" damage type in this edition.

    I didn't have a reason for replacing Psychic with Divine, other than not wanting to make a new row for it I suppose.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-04-08 at 03:25 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Agent_0042's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dungeons and dragons Elements

    Don't forget desiccation! Everyone loves desiccation!

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