War Weaver Build

[alexthemad]

So I'm perusing the sight, looking for good support characters and I come across this build. Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3. I think this looks nice so...

After looking at the classes a little closer, I have a question. Why not be a transmuter? Wouldn't transmutation have more spells usefull in the Eldritch Tapestry? Or am I missing something?

[unre9istered]

Master Specialist (for abjurer) gives you two of the feats needed for Initiate of the Sevenfold veil and requires the third itself. IotSV is totally worth it with Master Specialist (abjurer); without it IotSV is a little feat heavy on the requirements.

[alexthemad]

Boy, do I feel sheepish.

I completely overlooked that little tidbit that is oh so important. Thanks.

[Amphetryon]

There's a solid War Weaver guide over here.

[LichPrinceAlim]

So I'm perusing the sight, looking for good support characters and I come across this build. Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/War Weaver 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3. I think this looks nice so...

After looking at the classes a little closer, I have a question. Why not be a transmuter? Wouldn't transmutation have more spells usefull in the Eldritch Tapestry? Or am I missing something?

I say drop 2 Archmage levels in favor of Incantrix

[strider24seven]

Do 2 levels of Incantatrix really make that much of a difference? I'm AFB, but IIRC you trade ANOTHER school of spells for a metamagic feat. And that's it. I could be very wrong, though.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Do 2 levels of Incantatrix really make that much of a difference? I'm AFB, but IIRC you trade ANOTHER school of spells for a metamagic feat. And that's it. I could be very wrong, though.

Well, you must IF you aren't an Abjurer, so you don't sac another school

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Although using Iot7V is all around solid, as it is a very good PrC in its own right, I prefer to use Transmuter as the base along with early entry via Sanctum Spell. After that, hit up Spellguard of Silverymoon so that all of your buff spells - personal or otherwise - level 6 and under hit the entire party. You can also add either Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion to get up to 9th level spells, too.


Your millage may vary, to be fair, as the guide comments.

[alexthemad]

There's a solid War Weaver guide over here.

Thanks, looks informative.

I say drop 2 Archmage levels in favor of Incantrix

Sadly I don't have the Player's Guide to Faerun.

Although using Iot7V is all around solid, as it is a very good PrC in its own right, I prefer to use Transmuter as the base along with early entry via Sanctum Spell. After that, hit up Spellguard of Silverymoon so that all of your buff spells - personal or otherwise - level 6 and under hit the entire party. You can also add either Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion to get up to 9th level spells, too.


Your millage may vary, to be fair, as the guide comments.

What book is the Spellguard of Silverymoon from? So what is the build breakdown you are suggesting, because it sounds as if you are suggesting dropping Iot7V and War Weaver. War Weaver has a similar effect (group buffs)that you are mentioning.

[Douglas]

What book is the Spellguard of Silverymoon from? So what is the build breakdown you are suggesting, because it sounds as if you are suggesting dropping Iot7V and War Weaver. War Weaver has a similar effect (group buffs)that you are mentioning.

Player's Guide to Faerun, I think, and he's not suggesting dropping War Weaver. Spellguard is to change Personal range to Touch, which is eligible for War Weaver use through the Tapestry. It only works on "defensive" spells, but this term is explicitly defined for the purpose of that ability and includes quite a lot of buffs.

[9mm]

War Weaver is smexy,And it has it's own handbook!

[sofawall]

There are ways to get any spell in the Tapestry. Something about an ability that makes all spells restore a little bit of HP when near a tree, partnered with an Acorn of Far Travel to make you always count as beside that tree, paired with Spellguard of Silverymoon that lets any spell that restores HP be treated as Touch, and Legacy Champion to let 9th level spells in the Tapestry.

[alexthemad]

Player's Guide to Faerun, I think, and he's not suggesting dropping War Weaver. Spellguard is to change Personal range to Touch, which is eligible for War Weaver use through the Tapestry. It only works on "defensive" spells, but this term is explicitly defined for the purpose of that ability and includes quite a lot of buffs.

Well, that rules that out. I don't have that book. I really need to find it and buy it.

There are ways to get any spell in the Tapestry. Something about an ability that makes all spells restore a little bit of HP when near a tree, partnered with an Acorn of Far Travel to make you always count as beside that tree, paired with Spellguard of Silverymoon that lets any spell that restores HP be treated as Touch, and Legacy Champion to let 9th level spells in the Tapestry.

Wow. Thats cool...just...wow. Some of you playgrounders amaze me at the different and cool ways you think, to get the most out of everything. Simply amazing.

[Akal Saris]

I like that handbook, but it's frustrating that all of the builds suggested in it are so cheesy. They are all either early entry cheese, sublime chords, or arcane-divine crossover cheese (Magical trickster for Precocious Apprentice for Exalted Arcanist to progress Favored Soul? Really people?)

It just seems silly to me, considering that war weaver is good and powerful on its own without going to such lengths. Sort of like taking a ferrari and sticking a jet engine to the back of it - it was already awesome, now you just made it silly and unusable in a normal game.

[sofawall]

Wow. Thats cool...just...wow. Some of you playgrounders amaze me at the different and cool ways you think, to get the most out of everything. Simply amazing.

That was Doc Roc's trick, actually.

[Vizzerdrix]

War weaver looks like it'd go well with all the free spells granted by Sand Shaper to me. Maybe something like Sorc+ Metaphysical Spell shaper+ Sand shaper+ War weaver. You'd have to find some way to soak the dead levels though. Maybe with light kobold cheese?

[JaronK]

I like that handbook, but it's frustrating that all of the builds suggested in it are so cheesy. They are all either early entry cheese, sublime chords, or arcane-divine crossover cheese (Magical trickster for Precocious Apprentice for Exalted Arcanist to progress Favored Soul? Really people?)

It just seems silly to me, considering that war weaver is good and powerful on its own without going to such lengths. Sort of like taking a ferrari and sticking a jet engine to the back of it - it was already awesome, now you just made it silly and unusable in a normal game.

Guidebooks intentionally give very powerful builds, because it's easy to take a powerful build and simply remove elements to make it simpler and weaker. It's harder to go the other way.

And by the way, Bloodlines work GREAT with War Weaver (for another cheesy trick!).

JaronK

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Guidebooks intentionally give very powerful builds, because it's easy to take a powerful build and simply remove elements to make it simpler and weaker.

As do I

[Akal Saris]

Guidebooks intentionally give very powerful builds, because it's easy to take a powerful build and simply remove elements to make it simpler and weaker. It's harder to go the other way.

And by the way, Bloodlines work GREAT with War Weaver (for another cheesy trick!).

JaronK

Maybe I'm being too hard on Doc Roc. I feel like there's a difference in giving very powerful builds, like Conj 5/War Weaver 5/Incantatrix 10 or Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/War Weaver 5/IoT7FV 7/XYZ 2, and in giving builds that few people will ever play except at the highest levels of optimization and that generally don't come together until late game.

The timestop focused arcane archer/sublime chords, for example, aren't particularly useful builds to follow before 19th level. I think the rest of the War Weaver handbook is well written and has good advice, so it's weird that the build section is so out of touch with reality, as it were.

There's an earlier handbook for War Weavers written by Valdrax, here, that might get my point across better. The author lists about a dozen optimized and playable builds, followed by the builds that use more controversial cheese in a separate section. That's what I would like to see in the newer handbook.

On another note, how come you never write handbooks, JaronK? You could have written the factotum handbook years before Dictum got around to it, for example.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Most everyone already got to what I hinted at (and stolen from the various handbooks), but the build was Wizard 3 (or 5, if Sanctum Spell isn't valued for early entry)/ War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4. After that, use Legacy Champion if you and your DM don't find it cheesey to extend the joy of War Weaver. Otherwise, throw whatever full casting you want on it at the end.

If Sanctum Spell won't allow 6th level spells into the weave for your group. Magic of the Land from Races of the Wild allows for the all of your spells, when cast in a natural area, to heal the spell's level to the target of the spell, qualifying it for War Weaving fun.

The acorn of far travel can be found somewhere in the depths of the old DND site on wizards.com.

[JaronK]

Maybe I'm being too hard on Doc Roc. I feel like there's a difference in giving very powerful builds, like Conj 5/War Weaver 5/Incantatrix 10 or Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/War Weaver 5/IoT7FV 7/XYZ 2, and in giving builds that few people will ever play except at the highest levels of optimization and that generally don't come together until late game.

Okay, the late in the game thing is a problem. Usually when you write a handbook you want to go high power, because it's so much easier to weaken a build than to strengthen it. But it's actually hard to make a build mature faster, so fast maturing builds should be featured. So yeah, that's a serious issue.

On another note, how come you never write handbooks, JaronK? You could have written the factotum handbook years before Dictum got around to it, for example.

Hard core ADHD. Without direct stimulus I tend to drop projects rather quickly. I'd need a writing partner, basically. I'd rather just provide advice to existing projects, as that way when I get bored and disappear the handbook doesn't just die.

JaronK

[alexthemad]

I'm posting in this thread again because I have the Players Guide to Faerun now and I have some new questions.

So I have looked at the Spellguard of Silverymoon and I understand the appeal of using it in a War Weaver build. Assume a level 20 build, with the Spellguard I can put any defensive spell in the tapestry. Now all the spells in the tapestry are touch spells. But with the 5th level ability of the War Weaver all spells ranges are increased one level, so touch would be close etc. So here are the questions...do I just need to be within close range of all allies for them to be affected by the spells in the tapestry (I don't actually have to touch them now)? What should the rest of the build be? I looked up Legacy Champion and I don't have that book. And I don't see how Uncanny Trickster would be helpful, someone mentioned it above.

Am I understanding correctly? All insight and help is appreciated.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

remember Gene Simmon's Rule: KISS.

The character shouldn't be too terribly complex

[Douglas]

do I just need to be within close range of all allies for them to be affected by the spells in the tapestry (I don't actually have to touch them now)?

Correct.

Uncanny Trickster is useful for the same reason as Legacy Champion, it has levels that give "+1 level to class features of another class". There's nothing stopping you from picking War Weaver as the other class even if you already have all 5 levels of War Weaver. Your War Weaver class features would then act as if you had 6 levels in the class (or more if you've got enough Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion levels). War Weaver limits the level of the spells you use through the Tapestry to your class level. Normally, this means level 5 spells or below at maximum. Add Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, and that limit goes up.

[alexthemad]

remember Gene Simmon's Rule: KISS.

The character shouldn't be too terribly complex

I think he just called me stupid. It might fit though...

Correct.

Uncanny Trickster is useful for the same reason as Legacy Champion, it has levels that give "+1 level to class features of another class". There's nothing stopping you from picking War Weaver as the other class even if you already have all 5 levels of War Weaver. Your War Weaver class features would then act as if you had 6 levels in the class (or more if you've got enough Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion levels). War Weaver limits the level of the spells you use through the Tapestry to your class level. Normally, this means level 5 spells or below at maximum. Add Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, and that limit goes up.

When I read Trickster, I just glanced and assumed it was just for Trickster levels. Thanks.

[Akal Saris]

Before you make a build using uncanny trickster or legacy champion, check and make sure that there are actually 6th and 7th level spells that you will want to cast on your whole party. This can vary depending on whether you have bard, cleric, or sorc/wiz casting. You give up another level of spellcasting at 1st in either uncanny trickster or legacy champion, so make sure you can justify that.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Before you make a build using uncanny trickster or legacy champion, check and make sure that there are actually 6th and 7th level spells that you will want to cast on your whole party. This can vary depending on whether you have bard, cleric, or sorc/wiz casting. You give up another level of spellcasting at 1st in either uncanny trickster or legacy champion, so make sure you can justify that.

He makes an "interesting" point. If bard, you know what to do. If Sorc/Wiz, focus on Abjuration. and if cleric, have fun!

[alexthemad]

I was planning on Wizard/War Weaver/Spellguard/Something. Havn't decided on wether to focus on Abjuration or Transmutation. I am currently reading the Incantatrix, so that might make its way in the mix.

[Doc Roc]

remember Gene Simmon's Rule: KISS.

The character shouldn't be too terribly complex

Mmm, I'd rather keep it fun.
In my experience, front-end complexity during character building is a lot better than back-end complexity, by which I mean slow resolutions of actions and difficulty selecting Best Options. Now, in a good system, both should be easy. But life is never so simple.

As for the builds. I never quite got to finish that, as right when I sat down to do so, the Great Ignominy struck, and the guide was trashed. Only through the valiant efforts of Kell is there a copy on BG. After I took up the Test of Spite, it seemed like an inferior use of my time, though a lot of what I learned there has been applied to the design of ban lists and in fact the design of Legend, the Penny Dreadful's d20 game.

[Akal Saris]

Yeah, that board switch trashed a lot of threads that I wish I had saved. So much good stuff lost :(

What's Legend? I googled the phrase and got back a lot of gibberish about Sweeney Todd.