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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    In eternity.
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    Default Re: A stab at houserules for full casters

    In D&D, magic is expected. The core four party of Wizard/Cleric/Fighter/Rogue has two full casters and two non-casters who have an interdependence with the casters. At low levels, non-casters keep the low-stamina casters alive. At high levels, the casters make the non-casters (and sometimes even themselves) into glowing wads of magical uberness.

    There's no fixing the fundamental disparity between casters and non-casters when casters alter reality and non-casters hit things.

    A generous caster buffs his party and makes life easier for them by debuffing/crowd controlling foes, A selfish caster leaves his allies by the wayside as he solos encounters.

    Increasing casting times or adding risk seeks to annoy frail low-level casters and make them want to use non-combat spells like divinations, planar binding, and simulacrum to protect their slow-to-cast mechanics. If I feel so strangled by measures meant to 'balance' casters and non-casters, I don't want to play in that game. I can still one-shot things as a Hood without casting a spell.

    If you annoy caster players so much they don't want to play, leaving only non-casters, the game radically changes. Suddenly, even little creatures (mobs of kobolds, for example) become much deadlier. Enemies can cast spells with less regard for their survival depending on the DM.

    There is no fix appropriate for everyone. If someone in your party is being especially party-unfriendly, talk to him civilly out of character as a friend.

    D&D 3.5 is inherently unbalanced. It's more versatile and sells more books that way.
    Last edited by Endarire; 2010-04-10 at 03:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If you're of a philosophical bent, the powergamer is a great example of Heidegger's modern technological man, who treats a game's mechanics as a standing reserve of undifferentiated resources that are to be used for his goals.
    My Complete Tome of Battle Maneuver/Stance/Class Overhaul

    Arseplomancy = Fanatic Tarrasque!

  2. - Top - End - #62

    Default Re: A stab at houserules for full casters

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    I like this one, though I'd make it % Spell Failure instead.

    You have to choose between being totally safe and barely effective, or being a true glass cannon. The choice is in the hands of the player, making for a more fun game.
    I could see that.

    Perhaps:
    The energies in protective magics interfere with spellcasting. A caster may have one such spell active upon him(her)self without penalty. Further buff spells active impose a 5% spell failure chance per spell. If a caster is a specialist wizard, then he/she may select one spell from that specialist school at each spell level. These spells are not subject to this penalty. If a caster has access to domains, then any domain spell cast by the caster is not subject to this penalty. While similar to (and stacking with) arcane spell failure, this is not arcane spell failure, and applies to all spells cast, even if they have no somatic component.

    That gives specialist buff casters an edge in buffing, but puts severe limits on others.

    I'd be willing to consider adding lines to the Sanctuary spell that negates the above penalty while it is active.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: A stab at houserules for full casters

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Increasing casting times or adding risk seeks to annoy frail low-level casters and make them want to use non-combat spells like divinations, planar binding, and simulacrum to protect their slow-to-cast mechanics.
    None of those spells are low level, but their are planty of low level spells that can end encounters, so why is forcing casters to raly on melee to defend themselves whilst they cast colour spray/greace/sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    D&D 3.5 is inherently unbalanced. It's more versatile and sells more books that way.
    So what, don't even bother trying? This thread has already produced solid framework for a houserule to stop casters buffing themselves to the high heavens (and without nerfing melee as my first one did).

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_0042 View Post
    Slashing dispel, and warlocks get voracious dispelling which functions similarly.
    But the IotSFV's hurts so much more.
    Last edited by Boci; 2010-04-10 at 07:11 AM.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Cardiff, UK
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    Default Re: A stab at houserules for full casters

    I've only read the first port here, so sorry if you've done anything to change any of them and I've not read it, but if you were my DM and implemented those house rules, I'd play a Fighter.

    My favoured classes are all casters and I'd feel incredibly weak if my Magic Missile took one round to cast rather than being cast in an instant.

    I get that you are trying to stop casters being power-houses and those rules would do that, but slower casting and one buff per school also cripples healing and aiding the Fighter do his job.

    It would make sense to apply those rules to say, everything above 2nd level, meaning that lower-levels spells can still be used in emergency while the higher-level spells are reserved for when they are needed.

    What place does Quicken Spell have in this system? This also destroys the ability for spontaneous casters to use metamagic by RAW.
    I return!

    Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.

    Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: A stab at houserules for full casters

    Quote Originally Posted by Rin_Hunter View Post
    I've only read the first port here, so sorry if you've done anything to change any of them and I've not read it, but if you were my DM and implemented those house rules, I'd play a Fighter.

    My favoured classes are all casters and I'd feel incredibly weak if my Magic Missile took one round to cast rather than being cast in an instant.

    I get that you are trying to stop casters being power-houses and those rules would do that, but slower casting and one buff per school also cripples healing and aiding the Fighter do his job.
    Dropped in favour of a system that makes active buffs interfere with spellcasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rin_Hunter View Post
    It would make sense to apply those rules to say, everything above 2nd level, meaning that lower-levels spells can still be used in emergency while the higher-level spells are reserved for when they are needed.
    How about everything above level 0, since you can still end encounters with 1st level spells? Or make certain combat spells like direct damage exempt from that rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rin_Hunter View Post
    What place does Quicken Spell have in this system?
    I might not make it a metamagic, and thus not allow the +4 tag to be reduced by metamagic reducers. Rapid spell could be a +2/+3 metamagic or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rin_Hunter View Post
    This also destroys the ability for spontaneous casters to use metamagic by RAW.
    I removed that aspect from my games a long time ago (applying metamagic does not increase casting time), so it wouldn't change anything for me, but I did not intent to prevent spontenous casters from using metamagic.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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