Nerveskitter while flat-footed - how?

[jiriku]

Immediate Action

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn. Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are currently flat-footed.

I often see people suggest that casting nerveskitter prior to your first turn in combat helps to ensure you go first. But how can you cast nerveskitter (an immediate action) before your first turn? You're still flat-footed, and therefore unable to take immediate actions.

[RebelRogue]

Specific rule beats general rule.

[Douglas]

Nerveskitter is a specific exception. Its description explicitly specifies that you cast it before initiative is rolled in order to boost your initiative for the encounter, and this overrides the normal restriction about casting spells while flat-footed.

[olentu]

Immediate Action

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn. Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are currently flat-footed.

I often see people suggest that casting nerveskitter prior to your first turn in combat helps to ensure you go first. But how can you cast nerveskitter (an immediate action) before your first turn? You're still flat-footed, and therefore unable to take immediate actions.

Spell compendium errata.

[Tinydwarfman]

Nerveskitter itself says that you can. Like he said, specific beats general.

[Runestar]

To be more specific, there is errata for spell compendium stating that you can cast nerveskitter while flat-footed, as a special exception to the rules.

[Eurus]

Does that mean that you can use Nerveskitter as an immediate action while flat-footed, and then - since you took an action - you're not flat-footed anymore?

[Curmudgeon]

Does that mean that you can use Nerveskitter as an immediate action while flat-footed, and then - since you took an action - you're not flat-footed anymore?

Not quite.

Flat-Footed

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

You've acted, but you haven't had your first regular turn in the initiative order. Thus you're still flat-footed. But your improved initiative modifier will help subsequently.

[jiriku]

Ah. So, being specific exception to the general rule, this would mean that other immediate-action spells that I might want to use prior to my first turn, such as swift etherealness, wings of cover, and celerity, are still off-limits?

(Begging your pardon if any of these spells also include a specific exception, I'm at work now and can't review my books to check.)

[Douglas]

Ah. So, being specific exception to the general rule, this would mean that other immediate-action spells that I might want to use prior to my first turn, such as swift etherealness, wings of cover, and celerity, are still off-limits?

Correct. You would need something like Foresight to get around that.

[Eurus]

Not quite.
You've acted, but you haven't had your first regular turn in the initiative order. Thus you're still flat-footed. But your improved initiative modifier will help subsequently.

Makes sense, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Saph]

Ah. So, being specific exception to the general rule, this would mean that other immediate-action spells that I might want to use prior to my first turn, such as swift etherealness, wings of cover, and celerity, are still off-limits?

(Begging your pardon if any of these spells also include a specific exception, I'm at work now and can't review my books to check.)

None of the three include such an exception, so they're still off-limits. The exception in Nerveskitter's errata is extremely rare.

[Eldariel]

None of the three include such an exception, so they're still off-limits. The exception in Nerveskitter's errata is extremely rare.

Far as I know, it's unique. Though Feather Fall could really use it. Actually, if reading the PHB wording, it's quite clear by RAI Feather Fall should have the same clause too. But yeah, nothing else far as I know.

[Saph]

Far as I know, it's unique. Though Feather Fall could really use it. Actually, if reading the PHB wording, it's quite clear by RAI Feather Fall should have the same clause too. But yeah, nothing else far as I know.

In 3.0, Feather Fall was listed as taking a free action to cast. Then after they came up with the concept of immediate actions, they altered Feather Fall to be an Immediate, and mentioned it in the Rules Compendium. Unfortunately, they missed the fact that this seems to make it impossible to use Feather Fall when you or somebody else falls into a pit trap. :(

[Swooper]

Since the purpose of this thread has been fulfilled, I just wanted to butt in and mention that a Chained Nerveskitter is good fun for the whole family.

[Godskook]

Although it is a very rare thing to have the requisite Syberis Dragonmark, there is a feat that makes you never flat-footed. Ever.

[ericgrau]

All of this could have been so much cleaner if they made the spell a standard action with duration "24 hours or until discharged" (upon rolling initiative). Even if you want to cast it twice in the same day it's not like there won't be a break between the current combat and the next one.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Hm, now I know what to key to my contingency at lower levels.