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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    I'm working on a dwarf warblade focused on defense, headed for the PrC in my sig (PEACH). One important houserule: my DM gave me heavy armor proficiency and ranged weapons. I have feats and maneuvers planned out, but I'm unsure about the latter (and still somewhat about the former). Please help me make this progression stronger!

    Thanks!

    Stats (great rolls from 5d6 best 3):
    Str 18
    Dex 14
    Con 20
    Int 14
    Wis 12
    Cha 10
    (Not 100% sure on dex/wis/cha; my DM has my sheet-give or take 1 point)

    Build:
    Warblade 1-7
    Defender 8-17
    Warblade +3

    1 - FLAW: Shaky (-2 ranged), Feats: Cbt. Expertise, Shield Specialization (Shield Ward is folded in!)
    3 - Imp. Trip
    4 - Bonus Feat (moved from 5 to avoid general feat, stance moved to 5): Cbt. Reflexes
    5 - Knockdown
    7 - Greater Trip
    9 - Ironheart Aura
    11 - Stormguard Warrior
    13 - Robilar's Gambit
    15 - Defensive Sweep
    17 - Martial Study (Strike of Righteous Vitality)

    A few feats I'm thinking about: Mage Slayer (and Pierce Magical concealment, but that requires Blind-Fight), Knockdown, Hold the Line, Stand Still. I considered Shield Charge and Shield Slam, but decided against them (they make it entirely too favorable to forgo a real weapon, and that seems too silly).

    Gear:
    When I can afford it, I'm going to be wearing Mechanus Gear armor (1,750 gp, but only 583 to craft - probably level 2 or 3). Mithril as soon as I can afford it as well (adds 3,000 to crafting cost, or 9,000 to base price); my Dex is only +2 anyway. Until I've got something nicer, I'm sticking with the chainmail I made myself at level 1 already - nothing short of full plate will actually improve my AC anyway.
    Dwarven Waraxe, as shiny as I can make it. Possibly a dwarven warpike for backup.
    Suggestions here? I'm getting something to boost the number of AoOs I can make per round (1 extra, and I can make them while flatfooted, 3k; based on Kauper's Reflexive Strike). People keep suggesting a belt of battle, but I'm not sure what makes it great.

    Maneuvers:
    1: Stone Bones, Steel Wind, Charging Minotaur, Punishing Stance
    2: Action Before Thought
    3: Emerald Razor
    4: Retrain Stone Bones to Mountain Hammer
    5: Ironheart Surge, Roots of the Mountain (not great, but I need it to qualify for Defender at level 8)
    7: Ruby Nightmare Blade (or Insightful Strike?)
    8 (PrC 1): Shield Block(?), retrain Steel Wind to Defensive Rebuke
    10: Elder Mountain Hammer
    12: Iron Bones, retrain Insightful Strike to Greater, Thicket of Blades
    14: Shield Counter/Finishing Move/Avalanche of Blades
    16: Lightning Throw/Adamantine Hurricane, Retrain Ruby to Diamond Nightmare Blade
    17: Immortal Fortitude
    18 (back to Wbd): Time Stands Still
    20: Strike of Perfect Clarity

    Any critique would be very helpful, as would suggestions.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by EpicEvokerElf; 2010-04-18 at 09:40 PM.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build help

    Well, at least in terms of armor, look into the "called" enchantment in the MiC. It's +2,000 gp on top of minimum masterwork armor, and it allows you to summon your armor to your body as a standard action, rather than taking the time to actually don it. If you're wanting Mechanus Gear armor, this is the first enchantment you should look at.

    Belt of Battle is great because it lets you burn a swift action for an extra full round action once per day. Learn to love it.

    Aside from that, it's looking fairly stable for going into a homebrew PrC.
    Last edited by reptilecobra13; 2010-04-09 at 01:27 AM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build help

    Maneuvers are up! Also, is it worth it to get either Stormguard Warrior or the Vital Strike chain? The alternative would give me some more feats to play with, including netting me some more maneuvers at higher levels.

    Also, I'll have a bashing shield (possibly with some bonuses) just for Shield Counter at high levels, to make sure it hits.
    Last edited by EpicEvokerElf; 2010-04-09 at 09:24 PM.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build help

    Stormguard Warrior is potentially pretty awesome; Channel the Storm and Combat Rhythm can let you utterly crush an opponent. Vital Strike is bad, and especially pointless for a martial adept; it does the same kind of thing your Strikes do, and the Strikes do it better.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Stormguard it is, then. Nice synergy with Time Stands Still and Adamantine Hurricane, and I can use it while recharging to make my next maneuver pack a bit more punch.

    Any suggestions on the maneuvers? I have some levels (14 and 16) where there are several I'd like to have. I'm reluctant to rely on maneuver-granting items, but I will probably try to get some. Which of the choices from those levels are more optimal?
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    your dm has considered why this class is not proficient with heavy armor and ranged weapons and considered the balance of giving that so you dont have to dip fighter right?

    something you might want to do anyways is get a sizing shield to swap between a buckler, tower or any other shield in case you wanna double or dualhand or need complete cover.
    also consider the aptitude weapon enhancement on it if weapon enhancement on bashing weapons are allowed. If not there is a enhancement or specific weapon that changes into a shield, then just slap those on that.
    anyhoo, it will allow you to apply improved crit, weaponfocus and whatever weaponspecific feats to that weapon. Like the warblade ability but it fits the weapon to the feats and not the other way around, so you get it on both the shield and probably a dwarven axe (free exotic weapon prof, now would you be able to apply your warblade aptitude on racial exotic profs...hmm?)

    as for maneuvers, combining avalanche of blades with stormguard the round before...is awesome
    lightning throw is prettymuch the only 8th lvl maneuver I like, the stances are sweet though
    Last edited by Escheton; 2010-04-12 at 07:40 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Action Before Thought requires Warblade3. Moment of Perfect Mind is available right away. I also don't see how you qualify for Strike of Righteous Vitality which requires 3 Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

    Loading up on defense is handy, but defense only matters if the opposition considers you a threat. If you're just a midget in a tin can who can't cause aggro, you're useless.

    You seem to like a defensive build, but a Hood's mobility protects her in ways a standard melee character can't. Being in or out of range as desired is a tremendous help over just standing there and taking it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
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    If you're of a philosophical bent, the powergamer is a great example of Heidegger's modern technological man, who treats a game's mechanics as a standing reserve of undifferentiated resources that are to be used for his goals.
    My Complete Tome of Battle Maneuver/Stance/Class Overhaul

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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Dont get greater trip, get knockdown
    Free trip when you do more then 10dmg, that includes when you do a maneuver instead of a normal trip attack. So always trip, yay

    also, I dont know what shield ward does, but you can fix arrows with a few well placed shieldenchantments easy, a certain crystal helps too.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Aptitude is less useful considering that I'm not taking any weapon-specific feats. Sizing shield sounds handy.

    Sorry, I meant to take Moment of Perfect Mind, not the reflex version. I can't really afford both...

    I have 4 or 5 Devoted Spirit maneuvers by the time I'm taking Strike of Righteous Vitality; the PrC has access.

    I need Greater Trip to get an AoO on trips, though; that's what makes them so fun. I'd like to fit in Knockdown too, but I don't know if I can.

    Shield Ward adds my shield bonus to touch AC (enhancements and all!); my DM is adding Block Arrow to it as well (I think), which is Deflect Arrows for nonmonks.

    I do want to look into mobility a little, but it's hard to be mobile in heavy armor.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Well, possibly good news: my DM declared that he is merging Shield Specialization and Shield Ward. I now have a free feat! Knockdown?
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Why the faxcination with heavy armor? Light armor is better in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If you're of a philosophical bent, the powergamer is a great example of Heidegger's modern technological man, who treats a game's mechanics as a standing reserve of undifferentiated resources that are to be used for his goals.
    My Complete Tome of Battle Maneuver/Stance/Class Overhaul

    Arseplomancy = Fanatic Tarrasque!

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    yeah...knockdown
    trip anything that you deal 10 or more dmg too. Including with maneuvers.

    just read greater trip, it is indeed great. Too bad it's pathfinder and not 3.x

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Heavy armor is better for this character. I can use it, it doesn't reduce my speed, I don't have enough Dex for the max to matter, and I largely don't use skills that are hampered by ACP. So I'm trading next to nothing for at least +5 to AC (chain shirt vs. full plate). I call that a good deal.

    Greater Trip used to be part of Improved Trip in 3.x, actually, Escheton. In PF they separated all the combat maneuver feats into two to weaken them (possibly since they have been made slightly simpler and more effective). Knockdown will be coming at a point where I'll reliably be hitting for 10 nearly every swing, so it's gonna be fun.

    Any suggestions for the level 14-16 maneuvers other than buying some discipline items?
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Standing up from being prone is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity. You can crawl 5 feet as a move action without getting up, but doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. SeeRules of the Game: All About Movement for details.

    It's possible to attempt a trip attack as an attack of opportunity. Fortunately, you can't be tripped while getting up from prone, at least not through the attack of opportunity you provoke. That because attacks of opportunity are resolved before the actions that provoke them (there are a few exceptions, see Rules of the Game: All About Attacks of Opportunity for details). When you try to stand up from a prone position, the attack of opportunity comes before you get back on your feet. Since you're still prone when the attack comes, the attack of opportunity can't trip you.

    Your foes still can use trip attacks to keep you down when you're prone, however. A foe can use the ready action to prepare a trip attack against you when you stand up.

    source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060321a

    and that is 3.5, also called 3.x right?




    also: considered dwarven plate?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    3.x is just a generic term for 3.0, 3.5, and (depending on the speaker) occasionally Pathfinder.

    Yeah, I've thought about exotic heavy armors, but they take a feat and give (at most) one point of AC over full plate (and don't allow any Dex). I wanted Mechanus Gear, but my DM says no.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    I feel like a broken record, but does anybody have any suggestions for the maneuvers between levels 14-16?
    -E3
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    right, and hat disciplines can you choose?
    these are homebrew prestigeclass lvls right?

    what sorta thing do you feel lacking?

    how often do you tend to renew maneuvers?
    whats your allignment again?

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    right, and hat disciplines can you choose?
    these are homebrew prestigeclass lvls right?
    Look at the class. It's in my sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    what sorta thing do you feel lacking?
    Huh? I have 3 maneuvers I'm considering at level 14, and two at 16. I need help choosing between them. I'm sorry if that was unclear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    how often do you tend to renew maneuvers?
    whats your allignment again?
    LG, and I refresh when I run out or when I'm standing still to take a full attack and have some particularly tasty maneuver I've already expended. Also, whenever a full attack will hit harder than my remaining strikes.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    sorry if I was unclear, it would make it easyer on people just tuning in if you mentioned what disciplines are availeble for those lvls and how many maneuvers you have in each one at those lvls.
    It saves the casual onlooker the time and increases your chances of getting advice that is suited to your need.
    Regardless, i'm gonna go check that out in a sec and edit this post to actually give some advice that is actually helpfull and not derogatory and such...

    also, the special stance your prestigeclass gets has an activation of free action. Now im sure thats to allow him to still use his immediate actions and all that. But every stance in ToB is activated with a swift. I consider free to be, well, unbalanced
    the constitution mod to nat armor, also weird.
    Free bull rush...ok, seeing you can only do it 1/round and it ties up your other immediate actions for this and swift actions for the next round.
    the 2 levels of getting maneuvers known and readied needs to fixed and should be in sink with ruby knight or jade phoenix.
    also: saves are either good or bad, that +2 at lvl 1 and half each lvl, and 1/3 each lvl. Now this could be special pathfinder mojo that I dont know but otherwise...yeah huh?
    just my 2 coppers...
    Last edited by Escheton; 2010-04-16 at 10:50 PM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    also, the special stance your prestigeclass gets has an activation of free action. Now im sure thats to allow him to still use his immediate actions and all that. But every stance in ToB is activated with a swift. I consider free to be, well, unbalanced
    the constitution mod to nat armor, also weird.
    Free bull rush...ok, seeing you can only do it 1/round and it ties up your other immediate actions for this and swift actions for the next round.
    the 2 levels of getting maneuvers known and readied needs to fixed and should be in sink with ruby knight or jade phoenix.
    also: saves are either good or bad, that +2 at lvl 1 and half each lvl, and 1/3 each lvl. Now this could be special pathfinder mojo that I dont know but otherwise...yeah huh?
    just my 2 coppers...
    Free-action stance is only unbalanced if you're not already in a stance before combat; I believe it takes a swift action to change stances or end one, yes? I see absolutely no reason not to have some stance active constantly, especially if you've got one like Hearing the Air or Hunters' Stance.
    EDIT: I believe you're right on this; there's no action specified for ending a stance, and I have changed the initiation action. However, I do not consider having the ability as a free action unbalanced at all.

    Con mod to natural armor seems perfectly logical to me; the duelist gets Int to... her Dex bonus(?!) to AC. What don't you like about it?

    Actually, Overbearing Protector must be recharged as though it were a maneuver (though you need not ready it), so it's far less than once per round (and less effective than other uses of your swift actions). It's designed to get an opponent off your ally's back even if they're not next to you.

    Maneuver and stance progression is identical to Eternal Blade and Jade Phoenix Mage (except for the stance at 10th level, which is simply continuing the logical progression of 1/5 levels).

    Saves are a Pathfinder convention; if you'd read the Defender thread, you'd have seen that someone pointed that out to me and I fixed them (they were originally set at 3.5). They realized it was far too easy to bump your saves up obscenely with +2 at 1st level, I suspect.
    Last edited by EpicEvokerElf; 2010-04-17 at 02:08 PM.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Just realized I get a bonus feat from Warblade at level 19... Very limited selection. Looks like it will have to be Blade Meditation, which sucks; Martial Study isn't even an option.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Its mainly the mad and sad thing about the con to ac.
    Dualist are usually dex and int based, without having to be a rogue or wizard (and now factotum or warblade as well) to make the int actually usefull.
    High con means lotsa hp, automatically. Adding an increase in difficulty to get hit on the same curve just seems off to me.
    Its very fitting of the class, and it only saves you a few bucks for not having to buy a nat armor item or have someone cast barkskin.
    No prob. I just think it's slightly overshooting adding flavor for crunch when there seems to be plenty crunch already.

    yeah, the warblade feats are pretty limited. Its a sweet bonus, free feat and all. But not from the "rather have a fighterfeat" perspective.
    Last edited by Escheton; 2010-04-18 at 04:25 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    I do see your point, although I think I'm going to leave it where it is for now. I appreciate your taking the time to read through the class, as it's been languishing on the Homebrew board for some time now.

    By the way, any ideas on what to put as entry requirements? The dwarven defender reqs in Core are essentially a useless feat tax, and I was trying to avoid that, but I'm not sure what else I can put in. Bonus points if you can think of a reason under which any of the feats I have by level 7 could fill that slot!

    EDIT: Also, I switched Pearl of Black Doubt for Roots of the Mountain at level 5; I noticed I don't actually qualify for Defender. Oopsies...
    Last edited by EpicEvokerElf; 2010-04-18 at 09:41 PM.
    -E3
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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    as is it's good.
    It forces fightertypeclasses if you want to take it before lvl 11.
    And even then, 3/4 bab classes can take the full class. Which is good.
    It also forces a clever defendertype, opposed to the dumb battlecharger...
    If you actually want to add something...concentration 10 ranks?
    The shieldward does fit, even if that ties down the class as axe and board.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    All right; I think I'll call this a beta version to send my DM, and the build is just about ready to play. Thanks for your help, Escheton!

    Still a little uncertain about those maneuvers, and looking for good items. Belt of battle and strongarm bracers are a given, as is the biggest strength boost I can get (with some Con added on later; I miss the 3.5 ability booster slots). I'd love to get something for Enlarge, as neither the telepath nor the cleric have it... Crystal from MIC sound nifty, but I don't own the book and it's going for $110 and up on Amazon now. Any suggestions?
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

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    Escheton's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    a potionbelt for 60gp with room for 10 potions, buy 10 potionblatters for 25gp each.
    Fill them with potions of enlarge person. Or whatever
    You can now drink potion, as a free action 1/round, upside down, underwater, whatever....without provoking an AoO.
    Aint that sweet?

    as for the maneuvers, it's prolly best to just play the beast and see what you feel lacking and pick up the maneuver to fix that.
    The ones you picked out already are the generally best ones.
    Now just to pick what playtesting proves needed.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF] Dwarf Warblade build critique

    Potion belt looks handy, except that I generally avoid consumable items like the plague - I never know when to use them, and I'm always afraid I'll waste one and then not have it when I need it. Thus, I rarely use them at all. If my DM realizes that Enlarge potions should be 50gp, not 250 as the DMG lists them, then I'll likely just buy 20 of them and call it a day.
    -E3
    Homebrew (PEACH):
    The Defender

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