Magic of Incarnum

[Octopus Jack]

So I've just got Magic of Incarnum and I'm wondering what you think of the races/classes/whole incarnum thing and could you possibly suggest some good builds using the things in this book?
Thanks guys

[Flickerdart]

Soulborn is horrible. Incarnates can get the highest non-cheese Attack Bonus in the game, but they're hard to do right, and Totemists are incredibly awesome and fantastic. Incarnum is notable for having one of few PrCs that allow you to break out of WBL without cheese, Witchborn Binder, but it sucks, so don't use it.

[Glimbur]

Totemist 20. Consider being an Azurin or a Duskling; alternately go kobold with the web enhancement so you have a claw/claw/bite already and can get other attacks with soulmelds.

Incarnate can out-warlock a warlock in terms of damage/round as a ranged touch attack, and they have lots of other tricks and buffs they can do. I'm not sure how best to use them, honestly.

Soulborn... I'd advise against it.

Incarnum is very nice for everyone with a Con score because you can take a soulmeld with a feat. Unless you are feat-starved, there is a soulmeld that can help you do your shtick better, whatever your shtick is. The more feats you invest, the more Incarnum can help you... but you have to consider opportunity costs.

[Indon]

Incarnum is a really sweet system that never got the attention it deserves.

As such, you'll find (once you figure out how the system works, anyway) that Incarnum characters are really nifty and versatile, but that there are strange gaps in their capabilities where it feels like there should be soulmelds, but no soulmelds were actually designed.

As such I recommend, if you're going to use the Incarnum material seriously, to try to houserule applicable expansions into the system, in terms of both new soulmelds and new feats, whenever you encounter such a 'hole'.

Edit: Or maybe look up homebrewed soulmelds like the fellow above me has in his sig!

That said, Incarnum as written's pretty damn good. The Totemist, without much work, turns into kind of like a Monk/Druid/Barbarian hybrid thing with some other nifty abilities in there too. The Incarnate is like a Cleric/Rogue, and has the versatility you'd expect as such. The Soulborn... is a lot like the Paladin and as a result is not very stellar. Soulborns are barely incarnum-users, making them the least interesting of the three classes.

Something the Incarnum classes do really well (which is nice as an obscure sourcebook) is dips for many classes. Since most Incarnum class features are passive, and the Incarnum system only really needs Swift actions to use, it means a couple levels in Incarnate or Totemist can work with a whole lot of character concepts seamlessly. Less so with the Soulborn as you don't get Incarnum stuff for quite a few levels with them.

[Optimystik]

Our very own Sinfire Titan is the resident Incarnum Guru. Rather than gush, I'll just shamelessly plug his work: The Incarnum Handbook.

That should give you a good idea of what is possible.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Incarnum Handbook by our own SinFire titan

He also has made handbooks for Totemists and incarnate.

Edit: ninjae'd.

[Octopus Jack]

Wow that's great.
I didn't realise there was so much Incarnum love around

[Warpwolf16]

Love the system, and the Totemist just adds new flavor to shaman/druidic/tribal characters. I like Dusklings, theyre just..so chaotic.

[Optimystik]

Wow that's great.
I didn't realise there was so much Incarnum love around

We try to encourage WotC when they get something right for once

*Avoids returning Soulborn's phone calls*

[Draz74]

Well, at least Soulborns aren't the worst spin-off Paladin class around. The Divine Mind has that award. (At least the Soulborn has full BAB!)

[Sinfire Titan]

Wow that's great.
I didn't realise there was so much Incarnum love around

As it has been said, the few things WotC gets right we generally encourage using. If you need any assistance understanding the mechanics of the book, please let me know. Incarnum is notoriously convoluted due to the terminology, and is second to the Artificer in terms of learning curve (one of the things that turned people away from it, aside from the whole "Blue" thing).

[Person_Man]

Here's a re-post of an Incarnum primer I wrote that others have found useful. But seriously, just go read Sinfire's handbooks if you really want to learn how to use it properly:

Magic of Incarnum is a lot like the Psionics Handbook and Tome of Battle. Each provides an alternative way of handling class abilities, and each lends itself to a certain play style. Although it's very complex to initially master, once you know what you're doing it's actually quite simple.

Incarnum classes play like a Cleric if it was re-written to be like a Warlock. You have a long list powers (soulmelds), most of which are buffs (with some utility and direct attacks mixed in). Each morning you choose from that list. The higher level you are, the more soulmelds you get each day. A 20th level Incarnate or Totemist gets 9 soulmelds. Soulmelds do not have a minimum level requirement though, so you can choose any soulmeld off your list starting at level 1.

Most almost all soulmelds are fairly weak by themselves, in that they provide a minor static bonus. For example, the Girallion Arms provide a +2 bonus on Climb and Grapple checks, and Ankheg Breast grants you a +2 armor bonus. (Some are true gems at low levels though. For example, Astral Vembraces provides excellent damage reduction and Flame Cincture provides retributive damage).


But each soulmeld can be improved in two ways.

First, you can invest essentia points in them. Doing so usually improves the bonuses provided by the soulmeld. Essentia is a very limited pool of soul energy though. It tops out at 20 points for a 20th level Totemist, or 26 points for a 20th level Incarnate. (And can be pushed a few points higher by race and feat choices). As a Swift Action you can invest essentia into any number soulmelds that you have shaped, with no single soulmeld having more essentia invested in it higher then your soulmeld capacity. Your soulmeld capacity is determined by your character level (and tops out at 4 points at 18th level or higher, though it can be raised up to 7 with certain class and feat choices). I like to think of it as being on the Enterprise. You have one engine room with 100% power that you can shift between shields, weapons, engines, whatever, up to the maximum capacity that each is capable of handling.

Second, you can chakra bind the soulmeld to a body slot. Doing so gives you a totally different (and all day) power in addition to the bonuses provided by the soulmeld. (Note that there are certain restrictions on this as well, as binding a soulmeld to a body slot prevents you from using magic items in that slot, and you can't bind more then one soulmeld to the same slot without a special feat or class ability). Which chakra slots you can bind is dependent on your Incarnum class level.

Questions?

[Rauthiss]

I love incarnum, I'm just rather disappointed it doesn't have any good healing capabilities. I'll pretty much echo Indon on this - Incarnum is awesome, but doesn't get the love it deserves.

As a fun note, use of the Flame Mantle soulmeld convinced my old DM that incarnum was broken beyond recognition. There's nothing like going Cleric/Incarnate and being unkillable - the orcs would die after one hit. It was beautiful.

[Sinfire Titan]

I love incarnum, I'm just rather disappointed it doesn't have any good healing capabilities. I'll pretty much echo Indon on this - Incarnum is awesome, but doesn't get the love it deserves.

As a fun note, use of the Flame Mantle soulmeld convinced my old DM that incarnum was broken beyond recognition. There's nothing like going Cleric/Incarnate and being unkillable - the orcs would die after one hit. It was beautiful.

It does have a few healing tricks, just that only one of them works short-term (at levels below 16th). Really, you can just UMD a Wand fairly easily (Mage's Spectacles).

Psycarnum Infusion+Azure Toughness. Or Healing Soul, but that's got a daily limit. It's like Stone Power, but more Temp HP.

The other healing trick is the Phoenix Belt soulmeld. Bind it, then give your buddy a Whip with a Phoenix Threat Augment Crystal (MiC). Fast Healing 1, all day long.

[Octopus Jack]

Ok I think I've got the basics of it, just need to play around with builds now. Mantle of flame combined with necrocarnum shroud sounds fun against large numbers

[Indon]

Ok I think I've got the basics of it, just need to play around with builds now. Mantle of flame combined with necrocarnum shroud sounds fun against large numbers

Mind that Necrocarnum stuff generally has alignment requirements - and you can't actually ignore alignment generally with Incarnum.

Incarnum actually uses the alignment system.

[Rauthiss]

If you're interested, Magic Of Ebberon actually has a class that has some nice bonuses for incarnum, the Thief of Life.

I wanted to post this mainly because it's the only splatbook other than MoI I've ever seen that even acknowledges Incarnum exists.

[Sinfire Titan]

If you're interested, Magic Of Ebberon actually has a class that has some nice bonuses for incarnum, the Thief of Life.

I wanted to post this mainly because it's the only splatbook other than MoI I've ever seen that even acknowledges Incarnum exists.

Don't look too far into it. They put it in there because it was an ability not many people would be able to use. If you can enter the PrC without too much trouble, it may be worth thinking about (but there are better options). If you can talk your DM into giving it a Meldshaper progression (ala Ironsoul Forgemaster at best, Witchborn Binder at worst), then take it.

BTW: Skarns and Rilkans (along with Meldshapers in general) are mentioned in PGtE.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

here's my two cents:

Incarnate: Really BA. Good overall

Soulborn: Basically, good only in one build: Paladin of Slaughter 5/Hexblade 1/Hexblade 3/Soulborn 6/Suel Arcanamach 4/Sandshaper 1

Totemist: Rape Machine. Advise for this.

[Octopus Jack]

Dragon Magic gives you a few more soulmelds so there could be some in other books, any ideas?

[Person_Man]

I love incarnum, I'm just rather disappointed it doesn't have any good healing capabilities.

In addition to the stuff Sinfire mentions, there's also Dragon Mantle (Dragon Magic) which gives you Fast Healing equal to essentia invested, but it only functions when you are beneath 50% hit points.

But in my experience, an Incarnate doesn't really need combat healing. Vitality Belt adds (Meldshaper level * essentia invested) bonus hit points, Con is your highest stat, and you have easy access to DR, SR, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Miss Chance, Energy Resistance, Saving Throw boosts, pimped out Deflect Arrows, and a host of immunities. There's also the Azure Toughness feat, which grants you hit points equal to your essentia pool (potentially hundreds or thousands of points for a Necrocarnate). I've never even been reduced to below 50% hit points as an Incarnate.

A Totemist could certainly use some. But he has such great mobility (Blink Shirt, Phase Cloak, Pegasus Cloak, Worg Pelt) that if he's ever in danger of death he can easily retreat.

If you're interested, Magic Of Ebberon actually has a class that has some nice bonuses for incarnum, the Thief of Life.

I wanted to post this mainly because it's the only splatbook other than MoI I've ever seen that even acknowledges Incarnum exists.

It's actually in Faiths of Eberron, pg 84. It requires 2d6 Sneak Attack, 4 ranks in Knowledge Arcana and Heal, 2 ranks in Knowledge Religion, non-good alignment, humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and membership in the Blood of Vol. (Easy early entry, but campaign specific unless your DM handwaves the Blood of Vol thing).

Over 10 levels, the class grants you:

• 6 Skill Points per level from a Rogue-ish list (UMD, Tumble, etc).
• 7/10 BAB
• d6 hit die
• Strong Fort and Ref Saves
• 3d6 Sneak Attack
• Life Sense: Blindsense for living creatures + Deathwatch
• Immunity to Fear, Energy Drain, and Death Effects.
• Borrow Vigor: If you reduce a living creature to -1 hit points with a Sneak Attack, you get temporary hit points equal to it's hit dice and 1 bonus point of essentia for 1 hour - but multiple uses don't stack.
• Steal Vitality: If you kill a living creature with Sneak Attack, you get immunities to fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep for a number of hours equal to it's HD.
• Steal Immortality: Capstone. If you kill a living creature with Sneak Attack with greater HD then you, then you get bonus essentia points equal to 1/2 the creature's HD for 1 hour, you don't age, eat, or sleep for 1 year, and the creature has a harder time being brought back to life.

So as Sinfire suggests, there's really not much reason to take the class unless your DM is willing to house rule in chakra bind and soulmeld progression. If you really want bonus essentia from killing things, you're much better off with the Necrocarnum Weapon soulmeld and/or one or more levels of Necrocarnate.

[Indon]

There's also the Azure Toughness feat, which grants you hit points equal to your essentia pool (potentially hundreds or thousands of points for a Necrocarnate). I've never even been reduced to below 50% hit points as an Incarnate.

Azure Toughness doesn't quite work like this.

First, Azure Toughness provides 3 HP per Essentia. Second, as a source of Essentia to invest, you can't put any more Essentia into it than the investment limit for your HD (which is like 5 at level 20). Third, Incarnum Feats trap up Essentia for 24 hours and you can't reallocate them except every 24 hours, further limiting the function of Necrocarnum.

That said, there's another Incarnum feat that gives you 2 HP per Incarnum feat, and Azure Toughness is indeed way better than normal Toughness because even if you don't want HP, it still gives you 1 Essentia, and Incarnum classes are not HP starved in general for all the other reasons you describe, as well as the soulmelds that let you run around at -20 HP or lower and such.

[Person_Man]

Azure Toughness doesn't quite work like this.

Whoops - I meant the Heart of Incarnum feat. You're correct about Azure Toughness.

[Octopus Jack]

I'm playing my first Incarnate in a game soon, going to be a LN Azurin. We start at level 4 and the party consists of a wizard (probably chaotic not certain yet) a LG Skarn soulborn and something else that I'm not sure of yet. I want to be able to join the Soulborn in the front of combat, any good soulmelds or feats i should be taking? I was thinking Incarnate weapon and Chakra bound Lightning gauntlets.

[Sinfire Titan]

I'm playing my first Incarnate in a game soon, going to be a LN Azurin. We start at level 4 and the party consists of a wizard (probably chaotic not certain yet) a LG Skarn soulborn and something else that I'm not sure of yet. I want to be able to join the Soulborn in the front of combat, any good soulmelds or feats i should be taking? I was thinking Incarnate weapon and Chakra bound Lightning gauntlets.

Lightning Gauntlets isn't that powerful. You'd be better off with either the Mantle of Flame or Vitallity Belt. Mantle applies to all enemies who hit you (which at your level is capable of doing 3d6/hit, which will deter attackers), and the Vitallity Belt is a potent ally for a front-liner.

Really, Lightning Gauntlets is only good if you didn't shape the Incarnate Weapon. Wasting a Chakra Bind for an extra 1d8+Str at the cost of being able to make Touch attacks is a very poor tradeoff.

[Octopus Jack]

If I Chakra bind the Lightning Gauntlets it allows me to add the lightning damage to a hit with a melee weapon once a turn so it would be 1d8 + (invested essentia+1)d6 + str and enhancement on the weapon per hit. I was planning on taking Mantle of Flame and I'm not sure about the last soulmeld, probably something granting a bonus to attack rolls. I'm also trying to figure out how much Essentia to put into what I have 5 points to play with.

[Sinfire Titan]

If I Chakra bind the Lightning Gauntlets it allows me to add the lightning damage to a hit with a melee weapon once a turn so it would be 1d8 + (invested essentia+1)d6 + str and enhancement on the weapon per hit. I was planning on taking Mantle of Flame and I'm not sure about the last soulmeld, probably something granting a bonus to attack rolls. I'm also trying to figure out how much Essentia to put into what I have 5 points to play with.

That's just it, you're wasting a Chakra Bind for the potential of another 1d8+Str+Essentia, but you're putting a larger risk on the attack roll. Using the base Lightning Gauntlet at this level is a Standard action, and you have no use for your Full Attack action. This means you can forgo a few points of damage in exchange for targeting their Touch AC. Which is guaranteed to be lower than your overall attack bonus as an Incarnate. Which means you'll be hitting more.

What's more, you provoke attacks with this, and anyone who takes those attacks is going to take damage from your Mantle of Flame. It's actually more effective to use the Touch version than the Weapon version, and it saves you a Chakra bind. Use that spare Soulmeld on the Adamant Pauldrons or the Astral Vambrace (both of which will extend your life span), and grab the Vitallity Belt (don't invest until your HP starts to dwindle).

[Octopus Jack]

Where is Astral Vambrace? I can't seem to find it, also because of feats I have 7 essentia to play with. I'm taking midnight dodge and azure toughness not sure about the third feat.

[Lycanthromancer]

Where is Astral Vambrace? I can't seem to find it, also because of feats I have 7 essentia to play with. I'm taking midnight dodge and azure toughness not sure about the third feat.

Here you go.

I love The Mind's Eye. Would that it were a bit more expansive.

[Person_Man]

For LN Azurin Incarnate 4, my advice is similar to Sinfire. I would shape some combination of:

• Mantle of Flame: Retributive damage
• Incarnate Weapon: Magic Weapon
• Astral Vembraces: DR
• Vitality Belt: Bonus hit points
• Spellward Shirt: SR
• Impulse Boots: Uncanny Dodge
• Keeneye Lenses: Spot
• Acrobat Boots: Tumble/Escape/Balance/Jump

If you're willing to burn a feat on Shape Soulmeld, you might also want Mauling Gauntlets (Soulborn soulmeld, provides a great bonus to Str checks such as Trip/Grapple/Bull Rush) or Girillion Arms (Totemist soulemeld, 4 claw attacks). If you're willing to burn a feat on Necrocarnum Acolyte, you can then take Necrocarnum Circlet (Detect Undead) and/or Necrocarnum Weapon (bonus damage and crit confirm).

Just keep in mind that you'll probably only have 5ish points of essentia. So at best, you can keep two-ish soulmelds full. So it's important to that the rest of your soulmelds be things that are situational, that you can switch off when combat starts, or things that don't require essentia to be useful (special abilities, immunities, natural weapons, etc).

I would then bind either Necrocarnum Circlet (all day easily replenished undead servant), Necrocarnum Weapon (bonus essentia on crit), Impulse Boots (Evasion), or Incarnate Weapon (re-chargeable Stun attack). Incarnate Weapon in particular is very useful at low levels.