Cooperative Spellcasting worth a feat?

[Infernum]

I was curious if the cooperative spell casting feat was worth the feat. It seems to me that two casters who have this feat both cast a spell and then each of theirs goes off with a higher DC on each which is kinda cool and the benefit for getting through SR is also nice kinda. In addition our DM does ritual magic so he is removing the penalty for working with other types of casters (a wizard working with a druid for example) when trying to do ritual magic and the like.

I was curious what the opinion around here was on the feat?

[Glimbur]

You could instead cast two spells and give your foe twice the chance of rolling poorly on the spell. Plus, that gives you twice the chance to get through SR. As a final benefit, Operation Two Spells doesn't require a feat from each participant to do.

Interestingly, I'm not clear on whether cooperating requires an action from each caster, or just one of them. If it only takes one action, it's not a bad way to burn through a lot of spell slots to be harder to resist and better against SR.

tl;dr Not a very good feat.

[Critical]

Generally, the feat is bad, though, it does provide entry into some good PrC's.

[Anonymouswizard]

If going from CAr and core only I can say that it is only good for one thing: Mage of the Arcane Order. That is really the only reason to take it.

[Math_Mage]

If going from CAr and core only I can say that it is only good for one thing: Mage of the Arcane Order. That is really the only reason to take it.

Seconded. There is no inherent benefit gained from the feat unless you are working with a large group of similar casters (6+), which is not a typical adventuring scenario.

[Seracain]

The main use I've found for it is npc groups. It can be used to build interesting encounters.

[Irreverent Fool]

The main use I've found for it is npc groups. It can be used to build interesting encounters.

Unless it's to guarantee a save-or-die works on a PC, I can't see any good reason for this to come up in a situation which would matter in regards to direct PC action and since save-or-dies are No Fun against PCs, it still looks worthless to me.

I mean, increasing CL is nice, but if there are enough spellcasters working together, all casting the same spell that benefits from that higher CL, they'd still be better off working individually and not screwing themselves over in the action economy.

On the other hand, it is a good explanation for why Mr. Evil's buffs seem to last all day and are so hard to dispel.

obnoxious
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[Milskidasith]

It's good to use with leadership abuse, just because having a big group of wizards cast three or four second or third level spells that you automatically fail the save on is pretty nice.

But for an actual PC, no, it's not useful, because you're burning two spell slots to get what spell focus or a small to moderate (depending on level) chunk of gold would get you.

[Seracain]

Unless it's to guarantee a save-or-die works on a PC, I can't see any good reason for this to come up in a situation which would matter in regards to direct PC action and since save-or-dies are No Fun against PCs, it still looks worthless to me.

I mean, increasing CL is nice, but if there are enough spellcasters working together, all casting the same spell that benefits from that higher CL, they'd still be better off working individually and not screwing themselves over in the action economy.

On the other hand, it is a good explanation for why Mr. Evil's buffs seem to last all day and are so hard to dispel.

obnoxious
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The encounter I was referencing had a community of mostly level ones, who, utilising illusions, messed with the party who had come to stop their cult leader (the only high level character in the community). The players couldn't overcome the high dcs of the illusions.

Once the party figured out the basics of what was happening, they had to use a divide and conquer strategy against the low level mages. Additionally, through out all this, the players knew that only the head honcho was bad and the rest all very mislead. It turn out to be one of the more memorable encounters.

It doesn't have a lot of use in optimisation, but it can be part of setting up some interesting things.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I don’t see anything that says only one spell goes off. Are you sure it’s not…

7th level sorcerer (21 Cha) and 10th level wizard (19 Int) both cooperatively cast fireball with one 7d6 fireball at Ref DC 20 and SR-CL 11 as well as a 10d6 fireball at Ref DC 20 and SR-CL 11 both hitting the target?

Indeed, the benefit section of the feat refers to casting the same spell (singular) but applying the bonuses to copperatively cast spells (plural).

Yeah, this would actually make for a really good bonus, but as has been pointed out, the opportunities to actually get this bonus would be virtually nonexistent for most PCs.

[DragoonWraith]

I'd be interested in a more creative way to combine spells, personally...

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'd be interested in a more creative way to combine spells, personally...

You mean actually combine the spells into one super-version? Yeah, it would be cool, but I don’t know if there’s a way of doing that without a major overhaul to 3.5 rules.

[Math_Mage]

The RAW looks like it gives bonuses to both spells cast. So four sixth-level casters cooperating would produce four 9th-level fireballs with 10th-level saves. This abruptly becomes a reasonably powerful, but situational, strategy.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

I liked it in my old Greyhawk/Ravenloft campaign, where I was a Red Wizard of Thay and a Mage of the Arcane Order, as were my cohorts (One RWoT and one MotAO). We all had the same spell lists, thus, a triple spell essentially

[OldTrees]

Idk if this is allowed by RAW but, I allow casters casting a coopertive spell to stack any addtional benifits they give the spell. The example I use this for is a Dread Necromancer with a corpsecrafting Cohort.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The RAW looks like it gives bonuses to both spells cast. So four sixth-level casters cooperating would produce four 9th-level fireballs…

It only increases Caster Level with respect to Spell Resistance. They still only do 6d6 damage and a 640-ft. range.