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2010-04-12, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
Monks lose their AC bonus from Wisdom when "carrying a shield".
However, it is argueable that because the Gnomish Battle Cloak from Races of Stone is not carried in a hand but worn, it can be used by monks without losing the penalty, despite the fact that it provides a shield bonus to AC. After all, magic items or spells that provide a shield bonus do not count against the Monk's AC.
Equally arguable is the fact that it because it requires Exotic Shield Proficency (which Fighters can trade their Tower Shield Proficency for) and that is listed underneath "shields", it does supercede the Monk AC bonus.
If this is the case, however, how do monks and the variety of exotic shield+weapon combos work? In particular I note the Gnomish Tortoise Shield, also from Races of Stone, and the Manople from Sandstorm. Does a monk wielding these weapons count as carrying a shield?Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
I am a 12/13/13/17/15/17 True Neutral Sorcerer2.
Tainted Bonds, a newly-created Touhou x D&D 3.5 CYOA. Just read these before posting anywhere. Talk about it here.
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2010-04-12, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
Some questions to ask yourself:
Is it normally equipped in a shield slot?
Do you wield it with your hands?
If the answer to the above is "no," then it is not a "shield" per se, and should stack with the monk's bonus AC.
***N.B. This does not count the "Animated" shields, which, IMO, should not override the monk's bonus. But, RAW, I believe it does.
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2010-04-12, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-12, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
Eh, it's listed under "shields" in RoS, and then goes on to say that it's not really a shield.
I'm going to put this in "poorly defined - ask your DM" territory. =/Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.
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2010-04-12, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
Personally, I'd allow it. It's very clearly not actually armor, and wielding one seems to fit in well with the sort of fighting style monks encourage.
It isn't like monks are breaking down any power walls thanks to a slightly higher AC, anyway.SpoilerOriginally Posted by JaronKOriginally Posted by TyndmyrOriginally Posted by Zaq
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2010-04-13, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
Amen to that one.
The reason for this was an exercise in high AC without magic items or buffs(because that trivializes the experiment). A character with high Dexterity, high Wisdom, some natural armor, using a Gnomish Battle Cloak to get a shield, using Divine Shield to burn Turn Undead attempts to add his Charisma bonus to his shield AC, and Dodge and Combat Expertise feats.
Am I missing anything?Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
I am a 12/13/13/17/15/17 True Neutral Sorcerer2.
Tainted Bonds, a newly-created Touhou x D&D 3.5 CYOA. Just read these before posting anywhere. Talk about it here.
Awesome remastered ballista avatar by Savannah!
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2010-04-13, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
I've always thought that monks should be able to use Gnomish Twistcloth. For stylistic reason that is. There's no RAW implication that Twistcloth is anything but armor.
If you wanted to get a bit more armor go with Swordsage instead of monk. They can wear light armor and get their Wis to AC. Still no shields though, but if you're going to allow the Battle Cloak for monks it works for Swordsages.SpoilerGaborn in Into the Third Age
Geist in Thershadeth
Kinkal in Voyage of the Iron Maiden
Jubilus Bellum in To Steal the Sun...On Earth as it is in Heaven
Frahraek in The Secret Society [Take That 4th Wall]
Thuk in A Brave New Frontier
David Narless (Daeclan) in Age of Worms
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2010-04-13, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
That would be a good idea, if the character's Dexterity wasn't already so high as to make even Padded Armor an overall AC penalty. That, and by using the Fighting Style Monk feats from Unearthed Arcana, I can grab the feats I need to.
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
I am a 12/13/13/17/15/17 True Neutral Sorcerer2.
Tainted Bonds, a newly-created Touhou x D&D 3.5 CYOA. Just read these before posting anywhere. Talk about it here.
Awesome remastered ballista avatar by Savannah!
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2010-04-13, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
If your dex is so high that any armor is restricting go with the gnomish twistcloth I mentioned. Its max Dex is "-". If your proficient then its +1 AC bonus applies to touch attacks, but I believe even a non-proficient wearer gets the basic armor bonus. (This all only applies to the Swordsage though.)
SpoilerGaborn in Into the Third Age
Geist in Thershadeth
Kinkal in Voyage of the Iron Maiden
Jubilus Bellum in To Steal the Sun...On Earth as it is in Heaven
Frahraek in The Secret Society [Take That 4th Wall]
Thuk in A Brave New Frontier
David Narless (Daeclan) in Age of Worms
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2010-04-13, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks and Gnomish Battle Cloaks [3.5]
From a RAW perspective, I would say that a Monk cannot use a Gnomish Battle Cloak or Animated Shield without losing their Wis AC bonus. (They're also not proficient, which might lead to other penalties).
But from a DM perspective, I'd allow it unless the PC was making a Tashalatora-ish build. The Monk needs all the help he can get.