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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Grifthin's Avatar

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    Default Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Can someone please explain to me how Knowledge Devotion and Cloistered Cleric interact/Break the game.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    It doesn't break the game at all. Cloistered Cleric grants the Knowledge Domain and Complete Champion lets you trade the domain for the Knowledge Devotion feat. Which is a strong but simple feat. At best it gives +5 to attack and damage, but only if you can make a DC 36 knowledge check. At low levels it's a decent +1/+2 though.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Cloistered Cleric gives you Knowledge Domain for free, better skill points, and all Knowledge skills as class skills. It costs you your BAB and Fort save, but both of those don't matter when you cast Divine Power.


    Knowledge Domain can be swapped for the Devotion feat thanks to CC giving Clerics that particular ACF. The domain isn't that powerful for a Cleric, but the Devotion feat is solid gold if you are a DMM: Persist Cleric.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Anything else ?
    Never forget you are the walls of steel and iron, between Mankind and a thousand horrors too unspeakable to name. You are the walls of Hell.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    That's all it does. You can get a good attack bonus quickly using Knowledge Devotion with any character that has Knowledges as class skills and at least 6 skill points every level to spare for pumping the specific Knowledges that Knowledge Devotion relies on.

    Cloistered Cleric might be the only one to get it with full BAB, thanks to Divine Power.
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    The only part of this that "breaks the game" is persisting Divine Power.

    If you skip that part, it's all reasonable and good.
    Well, a minor concern: if you trade away the Knowledge Domain, the Cloistered Cleric's skill list is "Decipher Script, Speak Language"
    Last edited by Riffington; 2010-04-13 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Actually trading the domain for the feat, in the case of the Cloistered Cleric, loses most of the Knowledges as class skills, however.

    Whether that leaves them with the standard Cleric Knowledges or no Knowledges at all isn't exactly clear, but you're better off just keeping the domain if you really want to maximize Knowledge Devotion.
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Gametime View Post
    Actually trading the domain for the feat, in the case of the Cloistered Cleric, loses most of the Knowledges as class skills, however.

    Whether that leaves them with the standard Cleric Knowledges or no Knowledges at all isn't exactly clear, but you're better off just keeping the domain if you really want to maximize Knowledge Devotion.
    Cloistered Cleric has all Knowledges as class skills without the domain.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    There is already a cleric type class that does this.
    The archivist
    It's an int based divine caster that works like a wizard with spellbooks and all that. With a build in knowledge devotion that applys to the whole party.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by FMArthur View Post
    Cloistered Cleric might be the only one to get it with full BAB, thanks to Divine Power.
    ...anyone can take Knowledge Devotion. It's just a feat.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by FishAreWet View Post
    ...anyone can take Knowledge Devotion. It's just a feat.
    Right, but Cloistered Clerics get a third domain free. That's the Knowledge domain. You can trade a domain for its devotion feat... thus giving you a 'free' feat over every other (non-cloistered) cleric and non-cleric.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by FishAreWet View Post
    ...anyone can take Knowledge Devotion. It's just a feat.
    You need to worship a deity who offers that domain even if you aren't a cleric, so it's not exactly "anyone."

    And of course, clerics get them the easiest since you can just trade in a domain.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    And anyone can worship someone with the Knowledge domain.

    I was responding the the statement that I quoted. Nothing else.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Being a regular cleric and trading away the domain trades away the knowledge skills to, no?
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *As a DM I run sand-box games.
    Challenge me.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Otodetu View Post
    Being a regular cleric and trading away the domain trades away the knowledge skills to, no?
    Yes. Making it less useful than many think.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by FishAreWet View Post
    And anyone can worship someone with the Knowledge domain.

    I was responding the the statement that I quoted. Nothing else.
    Since Gods are a fluff element it depends on your DM actually. I wouldn't let a Barbarian with an Int of 4 worship Boccob. So not anyone specifically.
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Since Gods are a fluff element it depends on your DM actually. I wouldn't let a Barbarian with an Int of 4 worship Boccob. So not anyone specifically.
    He could respect Boccob's uncaring nature, or the fact that he knows all the best ways to hurt stuff. Not totally unreasonable.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Inquisitor 1 gets Inquisition Domain. Tradable for Knowledge Devotion too.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Cloistered Cleric has all Knowledges as class skills without the domain.
    Better try reading that again.
    Class Skills: The cloistered cleric’s class skill list includes Decipher Script, Speak Language, and all Knowledge skills (from the Knowledge domain, see below).
    ...
    In addition to any domains selected from his deity’s list, a cloistered cleric automatically gains Knowledge as a bonus domain
    The Knowledge domain is what gives all Knowledge skills.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    He could respect Boccob's uncaring nature, or the fact that he knows all the best ways to hurt stuff. Not totally unreasonable.
    Yeah...well....you smell like paper >:P
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Since Gods are a fluff element it depends on your DM actually. I wouldn't let a Barbarian with an Int of 4 worship Boccob. So not anyone specifically.
    However, depending on the setting, there could be any number of combinations of domains. Tyr, for example has the Knowledge domain and despite being fairly Lawful, he's a hard hitting type of god, so he could have a barbarian follower or two who just so happens to be dumb as the sword he swings.
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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Yeah...well....you smell like paper >:P
    ...

    In the immortal words of da Orkz, "WOTS ALL DIS DEN?"

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    He could respect Boccob's uncaring nature, or the fact that he knows all the best ways to hurt stuff. Not totally unreasonable.
    Or just worship, you know, Seterous and get everything.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Or just worship, you know, Seterous and get everything.
    Yes, but that's just cheap.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    He could respect Boccob's uncaring nature, or the fact that he knows all the best ways to hurt stuff. Not totally unreasonable.
    "Nodding to a god in passing" isn't quite on the level of "worship."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Or just worship, you know, Seterous and get everything.
    If your DM allows him, he might as well allow custom ideals and do away with pantheons entirely.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-04-13 at 11:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    "Nodding to a god in passing" isn't quite on the level of "worship."
    Eh? If he's your patron, it works. Don't look at me, I just gave justifications for possible worship here. The Barbarian could believe the best way to honor Boccob is to hurt things, in homage to He Who Knows Everything About Hurting Folk. Given that Boccob has made it clear he doesn't CARE how folks worship him, it's good.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Yes, but that's just cheap.
    I don't consider a Soul cheap. More of a long-term practical investment.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Eh? If he's your patron, it works. Don't look at me, I just gave justifications for possible worship here. The Barbarian could believe the best way to honor Boccob is to hurt things, in homage to He Who Knows Everything About Hurting Folk. Given that Boccob has made it clear he doesn't CARE how folks worship him, it's good.
    Actually, if you want Knowledge + hurting things, you should probably go with Oghma. His clerics debate by wrestling.

    Anyway, my point was the same as K_B's - it's up to DM approval.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otodetu View Post
    Being a regular cleric and trading away the domain trades away the knowledge skills to, no?
    That's easy to get around - just don't take it at level 1. Once a class skill, always a class skill.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Actually, if you want Knowledge + hurting things, you should probably go with Oghma. His clerics debate by wrestling.

    Anyway, my point was the same as K_B's - it's up to DM approval.
    That's cause Oghma is awesome. He's such a great deity. Actually, all the Faerunian gods are pretty awesome. I mean, there's an Orc PANTHEON (Yurtrus forever!!).

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Knowledge Devotion + Cloistered Cleric 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Actually, if you want Knowledge + hurting things, you should probably go with Oghma. His clerics debate by wrestling....
    Wuh?? Winner = right kind of thing? Love it.
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