Sneak Attack Build

[Saint GoH]

I know, I know, there are hundreds of these around. I basically have it all worked out except for 2 friggin levels. So I come to you, Giants, and request assistance.

Basically as is I have a nearly full BaB Build (+18/+13/+8/+3) utilizing Assassin's Stance (ToB) to get 10d6 SA by 18th level. As is, I'm looking at Swashbuckler3/Ranger2/Rogue3/Darkblade10. Obviously taking Shadow Hand/Shadow Blade (ToB) for dex to damage, and Daring Outlaw (CSco) for Rogue/Swashbuckler levels. Also using Sacred Strike from BoED and Craven from CoR for teh biggzorz sneak attack.

My options as I see them are 1 Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv) /1 Rogue and I get 2 extra Sneak Attack dice (always good) plus the ability to basically always know where my allies are (useful for the sneaky type).

OR

Go 2 Wildrunner from RotW and get fast movement +10 (very handy) and scent (weeeeee!) plus a Primal Scream that increases my STR by 2 and dex by 6 for basically 4 rds. I can use this ability 3 times a day for an increase of +4 damage (per usage).

Soooooooo 2d6 (2d8 vs Evil) sneak attack? Or fast movement and an on use +4 damage? Note that I like moving fast and scenting, buuuuut this build is designed to blow people up before they get a chance to move. HALP!

[RagnaroksChosen]

I know, I know, there are hundreds of these around. I basically have it all worked out except for 2 friggin levels. So I come to you, Giants, and request assistance.

Basically as is I have a nearly full BaB Build (+18/+13/+8/+3) utilizing Assassin's Stance (ToB) to get 10d6 SA by 18th level. As is, I'm looking at Swashbuckler3/Ranger2/Rogue3/Darkblade10. Obviously taking Shadow Hand/Shadow Blade (ToB) for dex to damage, and Daring Outlaw (CSco) for Rogue/Swashbuckler levels. Also using Sacred Strike from BoED and Craven from CoR for teh biggzorz sneak attack.

My options as I see them are 1 Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv) /1 Rogue and I get 2 extra Sneak Attack dice (always good) plus the ability to basically always know where my allies are (useful for the sneaky type).

OR

Go 2 Wildrunner from RotW and get fast movement +10 (very handy) and scent (weeeeee!) plus a Primal Scream that increases my STR by 2 and dex by 6 for basically 4 rds. I can use this ability 3 times a day for an increase of +4 damage (per usage).

Soooooooo 2d6 (2d8 vs Evil) sneak attack? Or fast movement and an on use +4 damage? Note that I like moving fast and scenting, buuuuut this build is designed to blow people up before they get a chance to move. HALP!

Seems like it would be better to grab a level of swordsage in there so you don't have to drop the three feats on
shadowhand manuver/ shadow hand stance/ shadow blade feat.

plus that would eat up a level , then i would take the wildrunner aprouch as its such a great prc.

[Flickerdart]

BAB is silly. Dip Pyrokineticist to get a free touch attack weapon with 15ft range (that you can, arguably, make extras of to dual-wield) and keep dipping +1d6 SA classes. You can get SA in the 30d6 range with some optimization-fu.

[Saint GoH]

Seems like it would be better to grab a level of swordsage in there so you don't have to drop the three feats on
shadowhand manuver/ shadow hand stance/ shadow blade feat.

plus that would eat up a level , then i would take the wildrunner aprouch as its such a great prc.

Fo sho, plus the discipline focus is a great ability (+1 attack with shadowhand weps? Sweeet). Problem is I'm already pushing the limits for Multiclassing (Sigh. Yes. We actually use that ) So a dip in Swordsage would royally mess me up xp-wise, plus I need two levels in Wildrunner to get the scream.


Pryokinetist? Is that Expanded Psionics?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Fo sho, plus the discipline focus is a great ability (+1 attack with shadowhand weps? Sweeet). Problem is I'm already pushing the limits for Multiclassing (Sigh. Yes. We actually use that ) So a dip in Swordsage would royally mess me up xp-wise, plus I need two levels in Wildrunner to get the scream.


Pryokinetist? Is that Expanded Psionics?

Yes regarding the pyro (its also on the srd)

hmm you bring up a valid point i would grab the two levels of sword sage and you would be fine.

for you build i belive that is greater then the wildrunner levels.

[Flickerdart]

Yep, Pyro is in the SRD and has a Mind's Eye article on energy substitution for its abilities (get a whip of cold! a whip of acid! a whip of...air?).

[Telonius]

Take a level of Nightsong Enforcer and a level of Master of Masks, Gladiator and Assassin masks. Gladiator gives you an extra +1 competence bonus* to attack and damage as well as proficiency in all exotics. Assassin gives you an extra sneak attack die and +2 to hide and move silently. So you're a rogue when it suits you and a fighter when it doesn't.

*This isn't exactly the same as +1 to BAB - it's dispellable, doesn't work in an antimagic field, and has no effect on the number of attacks you have per round. But the +1 to damage balances that out.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Take a level of Nightsong Enforcer and a level of Master of Masks, Gladiator and Assassin masks. Gladiator gives you an extra +1 competence bonus* to attack and damage as well as proficiency in all exotics. Assassin gives you an extra sneak attack die and +2 to hide and move silently. So you're a rogue when it suits you and a fighter when it doesn't.

*This isn't exactly the same as +1 to BAB - it's dispellable, doesn't work in an antimagic field, and has no effect on the number of attacks you have per round. But the +1 to damage balances that out.

here's my add-on: Sneak Attack Thug Fighter from UA: SA as a Rogue with a Full BAB. I dig the Master of Masks finally in use y'all... makes my olde heart proud... Though I think an addition is to take Swashbuckler for Daring Fighter/Rogue

[Saint GoH]

here's my add-on: Sneak Attack Thug Fighter from UA: SA as a Rogue with a Full BAB. I dig the Master of Masks finally in use y'all... makes my olde heart proud... Though I think an addition is to take Swashbuckler for Daring Fighter/Rogue

Thug doesn't give sneak attack, just more skill pts and enhanced skill list

The Master of Masks is brilliant, but difficult reqs in my opinion. Basically I could benefit from the martial/exotic proficiencies at 1st level (go go Elven Thinblade) but can't score it till 5th at earliest. Rawr. Although I may still use it.

Pyro (or Cyro or whatever element) has a lovely idea to it. Forget BaB and go with touch attack SA's and lots of few level dips. My personal problem with it is what do you do pre-level 5? Or worse, run into something that is immune to fire?

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Thug doesn't give sneak attack, just more skill pts and enhanced skill list

The Master of Masks is brilliant, but difficult reqs in my opinion. Basically I could benefit from the martial/exotic proficiencies at 1st level (go go Elven Thinblade) but can't score it till 5th at earliest. Rawr. Although I may still use it.

Pyro (or Cyro or whatever element) has a lovely idea to it. Forget BaB and go with touch attack SA's and lots of few level dips. My personal problem with it is what do you do pre-level 5? Or worse, run into something that is immune to fire?

I meant use BOTH variants. You give up everything minus your d10 and full BAB for rogue stuffs

Like I said earlier...

and maybe a dip into Lurk to grant Psionic Weapon tree (only for Deep Impact) and you have a Full BAB vs Foe's Touch AC

[Saint GoH]

I meant use BOTH variants. You give up everything minus your d10 and full BAB for rogue stuffs

Like I said earlier...

and maybe a dip into Lurk to grant Psionic Weapon tree (only for Deep Impact) and you have a Full BAB vs Foe's Touch AC

Aha. Found it. Sorry for not understanding

[Person_Man]

What is Darkblade, and where is it from?

[Saint GoH]

What is Darkblade, and where is it from?

I get that alot. Where I'm from we use pretty liberal rules on resources. If it's in a book and you can prove it's D20 system, it's open game. This obviously leads to some pretty crazy stuff, especially because we frequently update 3.0 rulebooks to 3.5

Darkblade is from Complete Guide to the Drow. pre-reqs include-

Alignment: Any neutral (NG, LN, N, CN, NE).
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Bluff: 7 ranks.
Sense Motive: 7 ranks.
Wilderness Lore: 7 ranks.
Feats: Track.

Hence why I use Ranger, because neither Swashbuckler (int to damage) or Swordsage (free wep focuses and Init) or Rogue (sneak attack stacks with Swash levels) has track, 2 wep fighting, and survival.

[Godskook]

BAB is silly. Dip Pyrokineticist to get a free touch attack weapon with 15ft range (that you can, arguably, make extras of to dual-wield) and keep dipping +1d6 SA classes. You can get SA in the 30d6 range with some optimization-fu.

And also get a book thrown at you. Seriously 1-level dips of this sort are exactly the reason DMs start making rules like 'only 3 active classes at a time' or '2 prestige classes per build'.

Better pointing out that unarmed damage is one of the most easily buffed weapon types, and that there's a variant swordsage that gets the unarmed progression of a monk(complete with improved unarmed strike). With 3 levels, a feat, a belt, and Greater Mighty Whallop(CL 16 if you're medium, CL 20 if you're small, otherwise, the numbers are off), you'll deal 8d6 damage with your unarmed strike. Stack on other size increasers, and a few more effective monk levels, and that starts getting into some serious weapon damage numbers.

[Saint GoH]

And also get a book thrown at you. Seriously 1-level dips of this sort are exactly the reason DMs start making rules like 'only 3 active classes at a time' or '2 prestige classes per build'.

Better pointing out that unarmed damage is one of the most easily buffed weapon types, and that there's a variant swordsage that gets the unarmed progression of a monk(complete with improved unarmed strike). With 3 levels, a feat, a belt, and Greater Mighty Whallop(CL 16 if you're medium, CL 20 if you're small, otherwise, the numbers are off), you'll deal 8d6 damage with your unarmed strike. Stack on other size increasers, and a few more effective monk levels, and that starts getting into some serious weapon damage numbers.

I haven't worked on my Monk in awhile, but basically he has nearly full (+16) BaB with a rage (lul-LawfulRage-wut), Greater flurry, can make full attack actions on teleports (did I mention he can teleport?) and does 4d8 + 15 with no magic upgrades :D


Buuuuuut this is a different character, with twin lightblades and a penchant for sneak attacking people.

[Person_Man]

I get that alot. Where I'm from we use pretty liberal rules on resources. If it's in a book and you can prove it's D20 system, it's open game. This obviously leads to some pretty crazy stuff, especially because we frequently update 3.0 rulebooks to 3.5

Darkblade is from Complete Guide to the Drow. pre-reqs include-

Wow, that is an obscure source. Interestingly enough though, if you Google "Complete Guide to the Drow" the first link is a pdf of the book. (I expected an Amazon link, which I could then use to read the PrC in preview mode. But hey, I'm not complaining).

Anywho, it actually looks like a gestalt Ranger/Rogue smashed together in one PrC. Very strong by core-ish melee standards, but balanced compared to ToB-ish melee builds.

But you should know that there's really not much of reason to max out Sneak Attack damage. It's a joke compared to the damage you can get from Power Attack feats and/or Tome of Battle maneuvers and/or Claws of the Beast and/or pimped out unarmed damage and/or spells and/or a dozen other things I'm probably forgetting. It just scales too slowly, and you have to invest a bunch of resources in getting around the qualifying and immunity issues. 1d6ish is nice to qualify for Staggering Strike and Craven. Beyond that though, I would just move on to some other combo.

[PhoenixRivers]

I know, I know, there are hundreds of these around. I basically have it all worked out except for 2 friggin levels. So I come to you, Giants, and request assistance.

Basically as is I have a nearly full BaB Build (+18/+13/+8/+3) utilizing Assassin's Stance (ToB) to get 10d6 SA by 18th level. As is, I'm looking at Swashbuckler3/Ranger2/Rogue3/Darkblade10. Obviously taking Shadow Hand/Shadow Blade (ToB) for dex to damage, and Daring Outlaw (CSco) for Rogue/Swashbuckler levels. Also using Sacred Strike from BoED and Craven from CoR for teh biggzorz sneak attack.

My options as I see them are 1 Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv) /1 Rogue and I get 2 extra Sneak Attack dice (always good) plus the ability to basically always know where my allies are (useful for the sneaky type).

OR

Go 2 Wildrunner from RotW and get fast movement +10 (very handy) and scent (weeeeee!) plus a Primal Scream that increases my STR by 2 and dex by 6 for basically 4 rds. I can use this ability 3 times a day for an increase of +4 damage (per usage).

Soooooooo 2d6 (2d8 vs Evil) sneak attack? Or fast movement and an on use +4 damage? Note that I like moving fast and scenting, buuuuut this build is designed to blow people up before they get a chance to move. HALP!

Nightsong enforcer 1 / Shadowdancer 1.

HiPS, +1d6 SA. HiPS will help the sneak attackin'.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Nightsong enforcer 1 / Shadowdancer 1.

HiPS, +1d6 SA. HiPS will help the sneak attackin'.

I actually suggest against this, and suggest taking 1LA (hope your GM allows LA Buyoff) and take the Dark Template from ToM. HiPS, and your full SA with my Sneaky Thug gestalted with ranger (twf track preferably) and then take Darkblade. Be a Lesser Drow/Half-Drow and voila, Perfect assassin. Here's how he looks at "20th":

Race: Dark Lesser Drow/Half-Drow
Class: Sneaky Thug 20//Champion of the Wild Ranger 10/Darkblade 10