Toughness can be taken multiple times.

[Ixahinon]

...So can Improved Toughness?

[OldTrees]

no. Unless a feat says it can be taken multiple times it is assumed that it cannot.

[Ranger Mattos]

If it doesn't specifically say that it can be taken multiple times in the description, it can't.

Aah! A ninja!

[Private-Prinny]

Technically, you can take it multiple times, but the bonuses don't stack. Basically, you'd just be wasting a feat.

[Kylarra]

On the other hand, there's no particular reason not to houserule that you can.

[Zeful]

...So can Improved Toughness?

Can it? Does it have the "This feat may be taken multiple times. It's effects stack." line in the Special area like Toughness does?

[JoshuaZ]

On the other hand, there's no particular reason not to houserule that you can.

Well, it would remove most of the tiny, tiny reason to ever take Toughness instead of Improved Toughness.

[golentan]

Well, it would remove most of the tiny, tiny reason to ever take Toughness instead of Improved Toughness.

I can think of one game where Improved toughness was strictly worse. Admittedly, that's because we were running tomb of horrors at first level and so were unlikely to ever make it to the point where progression is advantageous, but...

At the OP: Hahaha... no.

[Kylarra]

Well, it would remove most of the tiny, tiny reason to ever take Toughness instead of Improved Toughness.

You mean levels 1 and 2?

[JoshuaZ]

You mean levels 1 and 2?

Ok point to you. But how often does anyone actually take Toughness then? If you've got that low level a character there's probably a better feat to take.

[IonDragon]

Regardless, it probably shouldn't be taken at all.

[Kylarra]

Ok point to you. But how often does anyone actually take Toughness then? If you've got that low level a character there's probably a better feat to take.

Yeah I agree that there's pretty much always a better feat to take.

[jokey665]

Here's my group's houseruled version of Toughness/ImpToughness:

Toughness grants a number of hit points equal to the number of hit dice you have plus two. Each hit die you gain after taking this feat grants you an additional hit point. You may only take this feat once.

Improved Toughness You gain +10 hit points. You may take it multiple times, gaining +10 hp each time. Prerequisites are Toughness and base fort save +2.

And they're still rarely taken.

[Temotei]

Technically, you can take it multiple times, but the bonuses don't stack. Basically, you'd just be wasting a feat.

This. Stealing a quote Milskidasith found in another thread...

Benefit
What the feat enables the character ("you" in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.

In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.

[Coidzor]

*shudder* I had to stop a guy from putting toughness on a rogue the other day. Since he was learning 3.5 and was practicing making 1st level characters to make sure he understood the system.

[holywhippet]

Ok point to you. But how often does anyone actually take Toughness then? If you've got that low level a character there's probably a better feat to take.

The best candidates for toughness are low level wizards/sorcerers who want to have enough HP to avoid getting one shot killed. Long term it's not really a great feat compared to many of the others. But if you are playing in a one off game or a short, low level campaign it's worth a look.

[Divide by Zero]

The best candidates for toughness are low level wizards/sorcerers who want to have enough HP to avoid getting one shot killed. Long term it's not really a great feat compared to many of the others. But if you are playing in a one off game or a short, low level campaign it's worth a look.

Might also be worth it if the DM allows retraining.

[Godskook]

Here's my group's houseruled version of Toughness/ImpToughness:

Toughness grants a number of hit points equal to the number of hit dice you have plus two. Each hit die you gain after taking this feat grants you an additional hit point. You may only take this feat once.

Improved Toughness You gain +10 hit points. You may take it multiple times, gaining +10 hp each time. Prerequisites are Toughness and base fort save +2.

And they're still rarely taken.

I'd take that version of Toughness, but why'd you nerf Improved Toughness?

[nargbop]

Craft Wondrous Item is a far better feat than Toughness or even Improved Toughness, because you can create a Belt of Constitution +6 for many many more hitpoints. Then keep crafting.

[Mastikator]

I'd houserule that toughness grants both the +3 hp and the +1/level bonus, and there's no such thing as improved toughness.
You can take it multiple times, it stacks, but the prerequisite is a con score of 13, increasing by 2 everytime you take the feat, so 13 then 15, then 17 etc.

[Kylarra]

Craft Wondrous Item is a far better feat than Toughness or even Improved Toughness, because you can create a Belt of Constitution +6 for many many more hitpoints. Then keep crafting.

CWI is a better feat than most feats by that metric.

[Coidzor]

Well, yes, it is a fair part of why Artificers are win, after all.

[Person_Man]

There's actually both pretty worthless feats. If you're worried about your hit points, just make Con your highest stat, and/or play an Incarnum build, and/or play a build with a vampiric/karmic healing trick, and/or learn how to use defense and battlefield control properly.

[Ossian]

Toughness is an OK feat for Npcs when you just don't know what to give them. Makes low level mooks a bit more attractive for an encounter anyway. Good for petty thugs and the like.

Improved toughness is good when you want to build a high level melee character, but I still only use if for NPCs (higher durability, you know).

Then again, I work in low (or no) magic, both in the way of items and casters. I guess if you let D&D go wild by lvl 10-12 there are already that many ways of insta killing or inflicting 100 HP per shot that an extra +10 or +20 HP won't matter much.

In this sense, improved initiative makes your NPCs live a little longer :)

[Sliver]

Toughness is awesome! The Tarrasque wouldn't have it 6 times if it wasn't awesome!

[KillianHawkeye]

Toughness is awesome! The Tarrasque wouldn't have it 6 times if it wasn't awesome!

LOL Beat me to it!

[Indon]

Well, it would remove most of the tiny, tiny reason to ever take Toughness instead of Improved Toughness.

With all the 3.5 sourcebooks, there is no reason whatsoever to take Toughness.

Azure Toughness, from Magic of Incarnum, grants you a point of Essentia and the ability to invest Essentia to get 3 HP per point. But if you have any other way to expend Essentia, or any other source of Essentia, you can use that feat to do other things (like raise your saves) or grant yourself more than 3 HP via the feat. (For instance, instead of the Terrasque having Toughness 6 times, it could have Azure Toughness, Heart of Incarnum, and 4 other Essentia feats and gain 10 HP and have the ability to essentia-invest up another 15, as well as also being able to do things like raise a save by +5 instead).

It might have a Con requirement, but I'm sure there are other, better versions of Toughness.

[Penitent]

This is my groups houseruled version of toughness:

Spoiler

Show

Great Fortitude [Combat]
You are so tough. Your belly is like a prism.
Benefits: You gain a +3 bonus to your Fortitude Saves.
+1: You die at -20 instead of -10.
+6: You gain 1 hit point per level.
+11: You gain DR of 5/-.
+16: You are immune to the fatigued and exhausted conditions. If you are already immune to these conditions, you gain 1 hit point per level for each condition you were already immune to.

[KillianHawkeye]

This is my groups houseruled version of toughness:

Spoiler

Show

Great Fortitude [Combat]
You are so tough. Your belly is like a prism.
Benefits: You gain a +3 bonus to your Fortitude Saves.
+1: You die at -20 instead of -10.
+6: You gain 1 hit point per level.
+11: You gain DR of 5/-.
+16: You are immune to the fatigued and exhausted conditions. If you are already immune to these conditions, you gain 1 hit point per level for each condition you were already immune to.

I'm guessing the progressive benefits are derived from Base Attack Bonus?

[golentan]

Great Fortitude [Combat]
You are so tough. Your belly is like a prism.
Benefits: You gain a +3 bonus to your Fortitude Saves.
+1: You die at -20 instead of -10.
+6: You gain 1 hit point per level.
+11: You gain DR of 5/-.
+16: You are immune to the fatigued and exhausted conditions. If you are already immune to these conditions, you gain 1 hit point per level for each condition you were already immune to.

Bolded... What does that even mean? Your belly separates different wavelengths of light?