Let's Play: Nethergate: Ressurection as the Celts

[Cogwheel]

You really expected the fae not to mess with you? Though I suspect the point was more not letting anyone else get the contract.

Would've been nice to see the, you know, sprite for the sprite. I'm curious Oh well.

Anyway, be grateful that the intelligent spider was just an aranea. And not, you know, one of the GIFTS.

[Ogremindes]

You really expected the fae not to mess with you? Though I suspect the point was more not letting anyone else get the contract.

Would've been nice to see the, you know, sprite for the sprite. I'm curious Oh well.

Anyway, be grateful that the intelligent spider was just an aranea. And not, you know, one of the GIFTS.

Tisk. I should have screenshotted it, as it was kinda a boss. Oh well. There'll probably be more sprites in the future.

[Cogwheel]

Tisk. I should have screenshotted it, as it was kinda a boss. Oh well. There'll probably be more sprites in the future.

Probably. What did it do? I'm guessing spell-chuckery.

Edit: I wonder if Repel Spirits works on fae? It works on demons in Avernum, after all, and the fae aren't that different...

[Ogremindes]

Probably. What did it do? I'm guessing spell-chuckery.

Edit: I wonder if Repel Spirits works on fae? It works on demons in Avernum, after all, and the fae aren't that different...

It actually tried tried melee. It got 2 attacks a round and was supported by some of the tougher varieties of rats. Blasty magic doesn't really seem like the fae's style, and NPCs don't seem to use support spells. And it looks too low-level for the spell that charms humans.

Since Repel Spirit doesn't work even work on 'spectral' enemies, I wouldn't expect it to work on faeries. I'm pretty sure they count as living things, though. There are some spells later on that work on the living an nothing else.

[Cogwheel]

Hm. I guess Repel Spirit got nerfed for Nethergate, than. Odd. I thought the game would allow for a rather broader definition of "spirit". Ah well.

You're right, blasty magic would be out of place. Still, buffing, summoning, charming and generally not having to lift a finger themselves does seem like their style. On the other hand, something this low on the food chain probably isn't that sophisticated, so I guess it makes sense.

I hope Nethergate doesn't feature some of Avernum's nastier enemies getting recycled. Doomguards, quickghasts, that sort of thing. Eyebeasts/gazers aren't exactly pleasant either, but I doubt they'll feature here.


Oh, and I'm still going to start my LP, in case you're wondering. Just, y'know, have to finish A6 first, which I'm working on with all due haste quicksilver feet

[Ogremindes]

Hm. I guess Repel Spirit got nerfed for Nethergate, than. Odd. I thought the game would allow for a rather broader definition of "spirit". Ah well.

Disrupt Spirit is really the Nethergate/Avernum series analogue to turn undead. You don't really expect blasts of sacred energy to work on faeries like it does undead and demons.

[Cogwheel]

Disrupt Spirit is really the Nethergate/Avernum series analogue to turn undead. You don't really expect blasts of sacred energy to work on faeries like it does undead and demons.

True, true. I guess I didn't think of it as particularly sacred, just harmful to anything you might call a spirit. Ah well.

Still bitter about the nerf it got in recent Avernum games. Single-target, and considerably less damage. Raege.

[Ogremindes]

Still bitter about the nerf it got in recent Avernum games. Single-target, and considerably less damage. Raege.

Well, as I've been ably demonstrating here, Disrupt Spirit was well overpowered, even in its single-target form.

[Ogremindes]

Back in Nethergate, I sell off my excess gear and return to the Chief.

… the warrior returns, without the scroll. He whispers to the Chief.

After that I purchase the Darts of Ice spell and a level of Herbcraft for Ciaran, allowing him to brew Hasting Draught.

I rest back in my hut…

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I don't like where this is going…

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…not one bit.

The chief has nothing to say except to continue on my mission, so I head to the hut I couldn't enter before…

I talk with her:

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"Can you help me with the curse?"

"What trouble can the crone curse cause?"

So bad luck. "How would you remove this curse?"

I also ask her about magic, but she can't teach me. I suppose I could peruse the main quest, but the Faerie Bazaar seems like the place to go now.

[Terraoblivion]

I have a plea for you. Please, please, please tell me that the ridiculously low ages described as ancient is just another joke and the writers did not seriously think that it was like that in the past. It just keeps bugging me, despite my enjoying the let's play.

[Ogremindes]

I have a plea for you. Please, please, please tell me that the ridiculously low ages described as ancient is just another joke and the writers did not seriously think that it was like that in the past. It just keeps bugging me, despite my enjoying the let's play.

Personally, I have no idea how 40 years compares to actual life expectancy of Celts in Roman-occupied Britain. It does seem very low, though.

[Terraoblivion]

It was probably around or a bit above the average life expectancy. However, that figure includes infant mortality as well as a generally higher mortality rate. Experiences from preindustrial societies show that except in times of war, famine or widespread epidemic people who got past the age of twelve were likely to reach 60, with people reaching 80 actually not being that uncommon. And it is not like people under those conditions suffer under aging in their thirties. That only came towards the end of their lives, the lower life expectancy was caused by other factors.

[Ogremindes]

He probably just didn't research life expectancy very well. A brief bit of googling got an average life expectancy of 35 but, as you say, that includes things like infant deaths.

And that kind of detail is boring compared to sprites and fomorians and wicker men and what have you.

[Ogremindes]

The bridge to Vanarium is the one I couldn't cross before, near Ruined Hall.

Following the road a bit further.

I press on…

So, ford it, I guess?

Or not. The plants do fire damage for some reason.

I decide to explore the map some.

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Aww, let the ant go.

No matter where I try, I can't push through the forest. I do find a house near the road on the edge of the wood, though.

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I enter. Just food, of which I have plenty. I buy some Dried Meat just because. Further on, I find a Roman's head on a pike. The way to the bazaar is surprisingly well signposted. Outside the bazaar I find a hut with a trainer.

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I hold onto my pennies for now.

[Cogwheel]

I'm fairly sure it was old by the standards of the times. Not as much as it's made out to be here, mind you, but still.

[Terraoblivion]

As a historian i have to say that no, it was not. Greek and Roman legislation would make no sense if it was. Similarly substantial biographical material from both antiquity and the middle ages would look seriously bizarre of it was old.We have knowledge of literally thousands of named people who were decades older than what this game considers old where their age wasn't remarked upon as miraculous. It is also interesting to notice that average life expectancies pretty much didn't rise from antiquity to the baroque and by the latter period we know for certain that people generally didn't marry until their late twenties. The budding censuses in the latter period also gives us data on literally millions of people older than their forties at any given time during the 17th and 18th centuries. It is also worth noticing that during the industrialization average life expectancy fell for several decades due to more brutal labour conditions and the threats facing the children of the working class. It began rising later in the 19th ccentury of course, but even so no one would propose that a thirty-year old man during the Napoleonic wars or during the 1848 revolution was old.

If you think more closely about it the unlikeliness of such rapid aging becomes more clear when you look at society. Not only does it take fifteen years at the most rapid estimate for humans to be considered grown, especially considering that over the course of the 20th century people have begun physically growing up more rapidly. But in a society like pre-Roman Britain there was still a substantial skillset to be learned by a fairly large amount of the population. In addition to the knowledge of druids skillsets such as metalworking or even just farming takes a substantial amount of time to learn to do well. It would be hard for a society to sustain advanced skills such as metalworking or horsebreeding, both of which we know the Celts carried out, if a trained smith or horsebreeder could only be expected to survive for a few years. The complexities of Celtic society would quickly break down if old age struck that fast.

The idea that it was old is a myth that comes from people not understanding how average life expectancies work. It is not the highest age a person could be expected to reach, it is the average age of death for everyone in the area in question. When you have an infant mortality of thirty percent and a high percentage of all women dying in childbirth it is going to lower the average life expectancy substantially. Similarly violent societies where disputes were frequently handled with murder would do the same. Famine and disease can be added to the list of killers. If people also aged this rapidly the average life expectancy would be closer to 18 than to 35. And while deprivation speeds up aging it is not to this degree. If you observe rural populations in Africa or parts of Asia who often lack modern medicine, then 60-year olds are by no means rare, even as 40-year olds are much more worn and aged than they are in the west.

[Cogwheel]

Right, right. Sorry, didn't know you were a historian. Shutting up now >_>

Anyway, interesting to hear that. But as you can see, it's not exactly common knowledge. The developers probably didn't see any pressing need for historical accuracy when people can chuck fire. I'm just grateful to see an RPG set in this sort of time/place rather than the bog-standard sort of setting. Plus, you know, Sidhe. Always a bonus.

Anyways, thanks for the education

[factotum]

Oh, and I'm still going to start my LP, in case you're wondering. Just, y'know, have to finish A6 first, which I'm working on with all due haste quicksilver feet

I actually downloaded A6 and tried playing it...got as far as Fort Remote (at which point you have to pay for the game to get inside) and decided it wasn't worth it. I don't know what it is but I find myself unable to get into the Avernum games--had pretty much the same experience with A4.

Dunno if Nethergate might be more worth a try...the graphics certainly look more varied than Avernum's do (there's only so many ways you can do "grey cave" ).

[Cogwheel]

I actually downloaded A6 and tried playing it...got as far as Fort Remote (at which point you have to pay for the game to get inside) and decided it wasn't worth it. I don't know what it is but I find myself unable to get into the Avernum games--had pretty much the same experience with A4.

Dunno if Nethergate might be more worth a try...the graphics certainly look more varied than Avernum's do (there's only so many ways you can do "grey cave" ).

Try Geneforge. It's really, really good, and may be to your liking.

[factotum]

Try Geneforge. It's really, really good, and may be to your liking.

Weird. According to the order of the icons on the Spiderweb web site, Avernum 6 came out AFTER Geneforge 5. So why are the UI and graphics on G5 better than A6? I mean, you can actually drag and drop items directly from the ground to your character doll, which you don't seem to be able to do on Avernum, and characters animate as they move (albeit they still kind of glide over the ground--the walk animation doesn't match their movement). And the setting already seems a lot more interesting than the Great Cave!

Only played it for 15 minutes and I'm already liking it, as you probably guessed from the above.

[Ogremindes]

So why are the UI and graphics on G5 better than A6? I mean, you can actually drag and drop items directly from the ground to your character doll, which you don't seem to be able to do on Avernum, and characters animate as they move (albeit they still kind of glide over the ground--the walk animation doesn't match their movement). And the setting already seems a lot more interesting than the Great Cave!

Because Vogel would've pissed off a lot of his fanbase if he messed with Avernum's formula much.

[Ogremindes]

Faerie Bazaar

Huh.

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I look around, and find a likely looking sagacious looking …person.

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"I have a curse, can you cure it?"

OK, I have to find a dragon.
In another shop:

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Score! One Rod of Safe Descent, and a couple of level-ups. Lachlan gets a point of Craft Circle, Ciaran gets Beast Circle.
And for Cogwheel:

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One sprite.

Next I go west to find a dragon.

[Cogwheel]

Thanks

Also, near the bottom of the second-to-last screenshot. Sephiroth is a bazaar guard now?

[Ogremindes]

Thanks

Also, near the bottom of the second-to-last screenshot. Sephiroth is a bazaar guard now?

The faerie's hair is only shoulder-length!

[Ogremindes]

As I pass through the marshes to the west of the bazaar, I find:

A bit further:

…a bit obvious. But I killed a basilisk easily before…

It was pretty easy. Everyone resisted the basilisk's gaze. The necklace, Miranda's Locket, gives a chance of "Saving Life". A difference between Avernum and Nethergate is that, while in Avernum a blow will only kill you if you're already on 0hp, in Nethergate any blow that takes you to below 1hp will kill you.

A bit further on:

…looks like I may be in luck. No, for some reason I don't keep that scale. Dammit.

To get in, I find a secret passage:

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By this point Bruce and Myndes had levelled. Bruce got a point in Endurance, while Myndes got a point in Beast Circle.

So far I've just been encountering Giant Lizards. Bruce can one-shot them so long as the crone curse doesn't kick in.

It's right, these goblins aren't hostile. Even better…

…I get a hireling for this part. Gobbo likes me killing giant lizards, 'cause they eat goblins.

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Maybe later.

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I turn that wheel, opening… something I guess.

I decide to go to Gobbo's old place next. The Pit Goblins are tougher than the ones I'd encountered before. Gobbo levels up. I give him a bit of Armour Use and shove a suit of Iron Chain Mail on 'im.

This secret room held a few Amphoras of Wine.

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Urgh. Foul Rats.

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Past that…

Like hell I'm not turning around! On the other hand, I do have LOS to the dragon from here...

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…No, that didn't work at all. Moving along.

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A cast Beast Ceremony, just in case, and go in.

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"The changes in our kind?"


"The Nether Gate?"


"That is all"

Wow. Didn't think he'd be so helpful when I first saw him. I quickly retrieve the scale. I check around the outside of the castle and find some Giant Slugs.

Heading back into the tunnels I use Piercing Sight to locate some unexplored passages…

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Enough with the basilisks already! Sure enough, past the statues is a stone-gazing lizard. A secret door is just past.

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I return to the dragon.

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Sweet.

Beast Circle

• Mighty Beast. The ultimate Beast Circle spell, summoning a large creature to fight for me. Needs Beast Circle 8, which even Myndes hasn't achieved yet.

Spirit Circle

• Call Spirit. Summons a powerful shade (or, based on past scroll usage, a spectre) to fight for me. Needs 7 in Spirit Circle, so I'm still a fair way from casting it.

Time to head back to the bazaar.

Well, OK. Now's the time to optimise the screenshots and check the file names.

Y'know, Vogel always does dragons well.

[factotum]

I find it interesting that a basilisk is apparently capable of creating a pedestal when it turns someone to stone.

[Terraoblivion]

Hey, it would be rude to not handle your statues properly!

What i find interesting is that Gobbo is apparently from Osaka. I mean this take place a long time before the city was founded and on the other side of the planet. Also i thought it was just a stereotype that people from Osaka speak like that...Oh, just fuggetaboutit...

[Cogwheel]

So the dragon gets someone else to do its work for it, and... teaches you how to get people to do your work for you. Ah well. Spells sound good, anyway, though Spiderweb doesn't tend to make very useful summoning spells (with the exception of A1~3 Arcane Summon, that was just ridiculous). Neat update, anyway.

And yes, I always like dragons in Spiderweb games. My personal favourite is Motrax, though that's a pretty sad one.

[Ogremindes]

I grab everything that looks saleable as I head out. I take the chain mail back of Gobo, too. Gobo leaves the party as I head out.

When I get back to the bazaar:

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I trade with a sprite called Poot. And when I say trade, I mean unload all my useless stuff onto. I begin to head back to Nethergate. Just out of the bazaar, I buy some ranks in Faerie Lore, one for everyone. I reach Nethergate, ready to resume my mission. Goagh-Nar is in the NW corner of Shadowvale.

Along the way, I find a house:

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It's a potion shop. I can also buy Health Circle training here. Moving on, I enter a threatening forest, and am attacked by wolves. Easy. Deeper in, I'm attacked by Worgs and a "Dark Wolf" Not so easy, but I survive.

There's apparently a quest associated with this area, but as I haven't got it I don't find anything.

I find some kind of fire on top of a swamp-surrounded hill:

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…you'd think I'd have learnt by now. Approach.

OK, I'll help

I find the first skull over here:

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I let the wretched thing live.

The second is here:

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Just a plain ol' goblin shaman.

As I head back to the hill…

I reach the hill:

A wand of ice. Not the most useful thing at this point, but the xp levels Ciaran up. I can't train on the overworld, though.

I find another swamp-surrounded hill.

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Further on, I find a place labelled "Temple of Brigantia". Seems like a place I should visit.

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I wander around for a bit:

The primary religion of my tribe and it's 'probably' for rituals?

I enter the hut of a likely looking celt:

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The man who uses the chief sprite is Owen. Leader guard and alcoholic, by the looks. He gives me a quest to kill a wolf in a swamp. This sounds familiar. Before I leave, Lachlan and Ciaran have skill points to spend. Lachlan gets Druidism and Health Circle, while Ciaran gets Craft Circle.

Unfortunately it's not the wolf area I found before, but the nearby swap hill. I need a loud noise to challenge it… On a hunch I return to the bazaar. Sure enough, in Poot's shop I find a horn. I also find out about a magic key. That will likely come in handy later.

I return to the hill…

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Ouch.

Fortunately the beastie ran straight up to Bruce, who was able to survive the full three attacks. The druids healed and buffed Bruce 'til the Wolf of the Fen went down to Bruce's sword. The experience allowed Myndes to level.

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Completing the quest allowed Bruce to level, too. I had Bruce hold on to his skill points, while Myndes got Druidism and War Circle.

I've changed my plan for what to focus on doing next in the game. Availing myself of some minor spoilers, I found out that Goagh-Nar is a point-of-no-return of some sort, and that there are 6 keys to find, of which I've only 3. So I'm going to be exploring Shadowvale, trying to locate the last 3 keys.

[Folytopo]

Your update schedule is nothing short of epic. How brutal is this game if you are not a veteran? The endless barrage of hidden doors and situations that need a specific approach seem daunting.