Really stupid RAW.

[magic9mushroom]

I just looked at the Player's Handbook 3.5, and it says that the DC of Listen checks is decreased by 1 for every 10 feet of distance.

Please tell me this got errataed?

[lesser_minion]

Where is this?

Page 78 has the correct definition of the rule - Listen Check DC +1 per 10 feet of distance (or, in the very least, my copy does, although it does look like someone's pencilled it in).

[olentu]

Well since no one else seems to be doing so here is the text from the online errata document.

"Listen
Player's Handbook, page 78
Under the “Listen DC Modifier” header, the last two
numbers are wrong.
Change –1 to +1; change –5 to +5."


Edit: I believe in later printings wizards included some of the changes.

[Emmerask]

lol
well there is a good new way to destroy your enemies then, let a feather fall 100 miles away and your enemies shall parish in the sound waves

Anyway no one really plays strictly raw and that is an obvious typo ^^

[magic9mushroom]

Where is this?

Page 78 has the correct definition of the rule - Listen Check DC +1 per 10 feet of distance.

It says -1.

@olentu: As I thought.

[Amiel]

Spot has something similar; although I can't recall exactly where this was written.

[lesser_minion]

Spot has something similar; although I can't recall exactly where this was written.

That's the rule that everything is shrouded in mists (or, more accurately, that you suffer spot penalties as if everything was).

[Emmerask]

By raw only the chuck norris can look farther then one kilometer ^^

[2xMachina]

Fog of War!

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Spot has something similar; although I can't recall exactly where this was written.

Eh, the funny thing is that distance is recorded as increasing the DC for Listen, but subtracting from the check for Spot. It amounts to the same thing, really. But it is sort of a funny distinction.

[QuantumSteve]

Why is this stupid? Surely it's harder to hear, say, a cat stalking from across the room or down the street than right next to your head?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm failing Read/Speak English checks all over the place today.

[Jack_Simth]

But yes - you can't see the moon on a clear night, by RAW. It works in a noisy, distracting environment (like a dungeon) ok, but not so much elsewhere.

[Starbuck_II]

But yes - you can't see the moon on a clear night, by RAW. It works in a noisy, distracting environment (like a dungeon) ok, but not so much elsewhere.

I think the Moon has a penalty to its hiding checks except during the day.

[Enguhl]

No, it has to be actively hiding, which the moon can't do. Unless we're talking about the moon from Majora's Mask

[Starbuck_II]

Wait, does that mean the moon actively hides during the day. I mean, we can't see it.

[QuantumSteve]

What size catagory is the moon? Although, it may not matter. At 250,000 miles away you get approximately minus 1.3 billion to your spot check, and I don't see the moon getting penalties more than on the order on millions to hide.

Perhaps it can't hide because it doesn't have cover?

[Last Laugh]

What creature size is the moon?
Surely it's hide penalty is no where near the spot penalty...(don't size categories work on doubling, meaning that the spot check has no hope of even seeing the moon?)
edit: Psychic ninja steve.

[Flickerdart]

Why is this stupid? Surely it's harder to hear, say, a cat stalking from across the room or down the street than right next to your head?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm failing Read/Speak English checks all over the place today.

Try moving farther away from the monitor.

[pffh]

What size catagory is the moon? Although, it may not matter. At 250,000 miles away you get approximately minus 1.3 billion to your spot check, and I don't see the moon getting penalties more than on the order on millions to hide.

Perhaps it can't hide because it doesn't have cover?

It's even worse for the sun. Also if you need cover to hide then you can't see the sun at sunset and at dawn when it has partial cover.

[Rappy]

The Spot skill is used to notice items that aren't immediately obvious and people who are attempting to hide.

It seems to me that the Sun and Moon would count as things that are usually rather obvious.

[Starbuck_II]

It seems to me that the Sun and Moon would count as things that are usually rather obvious.

What about the sun at night and the moon at day?

[Eloel]

What about the sun at night and the moon at day?

Sun at night has total cover. Moon at day is a fishy topic - sometimes you CAN see it.

[pffh]

What about the sun at night and the moon at day?

During the summer I can see the moon at day.

[IonDragon]

Friends of mine and I were playing a d20 modern style game (not d20 modern, but most of the base rules came from the d20SRD). One of them was on top of a car with a rifle, range increment 250 ft. He could accurately hit something a quarter mile away due to far shot, however because of the spot penalty the DC to see something like a zombie with half cover was somewhere in the neighborhood of 50+.

Even with binoculars, (Which apparently have no game numbers benefit) I ruled halved the range penalty, the DC was still 30+.

Also, not being able to hear what someone 10' away is saying more than half the time if your wisdom <= 10

[Zeful]

Friends of mine and I were playing a d20 modern style game (not d20 modern, but most of the base rules came from the d20SRD). One of them was on top of a car with a rifle, range increment 250 ft. He could accurately hit something a quarter mile away due to far shot, however because of the spot penalty the DC to see something like a zombie with half cover was somewhere in the neighborhood of 50+.

Even with binoculars, (Which apparently have no game numbers benefit) I ruled halved the range penalty, the DC was still 30+.

I thought a Scope negated the range penalties for the first 50 ft or something?

[IonDragon]

I thought a Scope negated the range penalties for the first 50 ft or something?

It was a homebrew system which came more from the d20srd than the d20modenrsrd. And if all it did was negate the first 50', that's a -5 to the spot DC. Decidedly lower.

[lesser_minion]

I agree with the comment that 'spot' checks generally refer to seeing something that could conceivably be missed, and I'm not sure how else you could handle it without corner cases like the sun. Even then, however a -2 per 100ft. would probably be more reasonable.

It's more like the Tippyverse or the Common Commoner Transmission Protocol - nobody uses it, you just laugh at it for a while and then go back to your fun. Citizen.

Then there's the rules for hiding, which assume that all enemies have all-round vision, all the time. Unless you're tailing them or you make a bluff check.

[Divide by Zero]

What about the sun at night and the moon at day?

They're hiding. Duh.

[lesser_minion]

They're hiding. Duh.

They have total cover for a fair bit of the time, in fact. Giant balls of rock have a tendency to obscure one's vision.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Also, not being able to hear what someone 10' away is saying more than half the time if your wisdom <= 10

More than half the time, someone with Wisdom 10 is taking 10. That beats the DC 0 for people talking by 10. No problem.

When they can’t take 10, such people are distracted. Distracted listeners are known for missing things. Furthermore, folks with low Wisdom are known for being easily distracted. So they’re missing out on what’s being said anyway.