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Thread: Omnifiscier?

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    Default Omnifiscier?

    So I have heard it referenced, but what is it? I only vaguely know that it is supposed to know everything or something like that.
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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    9th level arcane, devine and psionic spells/powers IIRC.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    9th level arcane, devine and psionic spells/powers IIRC.
    What? No.

    It was back when people were trying to figure out how to defeat Pun-Pun before he realized his power (back when it still took multiple levels to do). Basically you had an artificer who made a bunch of items. Hire some mooks, pass out some rings of Share Pain (or something). Get a Delay Death effect on yourself. Then jump off a cliff. The damage would get shared, which in turn would then get shared, which in turn would then get shared, forming a loop such that you take infinite damage in an instant. The kicker? You have a Masochist spell active on you, so you get a +bonus to attack rolls/skill checks/etc for every point of damage you made in the last round. Make a Knowledge Local Check. For every 5 you beat a DC more knowledge is received about the people in an area. Since you have a +Infinity modifier, it is extrapolated that you know everything about every person everywhere, and how they would react to every given situation in every way*. From this, you are able to determine which kobold would be the most likely candidate to start a quest for Pun-Pun power. Now, ditch your ring, and while your delay death effect was still up, dunk your head in the water somewhere. Drowning rules put you at either -1 or 0 HP, and then you just had another item that healed you. Knowing everything, you wander off to go kill that kobold.

    That was pretty much the gist.
    EDIT*: This was more discussed later on in the thread as part of the thought exercise, but the actual build just took a bunch of non-actions to make Knowledge checks about everything using the +infinity bonus.
    Last edited by Terazul; 2010-04-18 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terazul View Post
    What? No.
    Oh, must have copnfused it with something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terazul View Post
    It was back when people were trying to figure out how to defeat Pun-Pun before he realized his power (back when it still took multiple levels to do). Basically you had an artificer who made a bunch of items. Hire some mooks, pass out some rings of Share Pain (or something). Get a Delay Death effect on yourself. Then jump off a cliff. The damage would get shared, which in turn would then get shared, which in turn would then get shared, forming a loop such that you take infinite damage in an instant. The kicker? You have a Masochist spell active on you, so you get a +bonus to attack rolls/skill checks/etc for every point of damage you made in the last round. Make a Knowledge Local Check. For every 5 you beat a DC more knowledge is received about the people in an area. Since you have a +Infinity modifier, it is extrapolated that you know everything about every person everywhere, and how they would react to every given situation in every way. From this, you are able to determine which kobold would be the most likely candidate to start a quest for Pun-Pun power. Now, ditch your ring, and while your delay death effect was still up, dunk your head in the water somewhere. Drowning rules put you at either -1 or 0 HP, and then you just had another item that healed you. Knowing everything, you wander off to go kill that kobold.

    That was pretty much the gist.
    Doesn't "I am Pun-Pun (Ex)" subject anyone trying this to a famlicide spell, no save, SR or other defenses? I don!t see why the fact that he isn!t Pun-Pun yet should matter.
    Last edited by Boci; 2010-04-18 at 09:20 PM.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    The whole point was to do it before he ascends to power. Again, this was back when Pun-Pun took 5+ levels to complete. And the Omniscificer got all this done by level 4. That was the entire point of the exercise, when the "design a build that beats Pun-Pun" contest, that assumed they leveled at the same rate, was going on.

    Aside from, y'know, being awesome.
    Last edited by Terazul; 2010-04-18 at 09:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Oh, must have copnfused it with something else.
    Probably the omnicaster, a completely illegal gestalt build, not just for taking dual-progression PrC's, but for taking two of them per level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terazul View Post
    The whole point was to do it before he ascends to power. Again, this was back when Pun-Pun took 5+ levels to complete. And the Omniscificer got all this done by level 4. That was the entire point of the exercise.

    Aside from, y'know, being awesome.
    As I edited in latter, I fail to see how the fact that Pun-Pun does not exist yet is a problem. Are you actually telling me he is constrained by time?
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Temporally he is if you kill him before he becomes himself.

    IIRC, the omnificier is still a bit faster, he just doesn't have the means to kill Pun-Pun while he's chatting up pazuzu.
    Last edited by Yukitsu; 2010-04-18 at 09:27 PM.
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    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    As I edited in latter, I fail to see how the fact that Pun-Pun does not exist yet is a problem. Are you actually telling me he is constrained by time?
    Within the context of the contest from which the omniscificer was spawned, yes.

    EDIT:Let's also get a link to the relevant build in here, shall we?
    Last edited by Terazul; 2010-04-18 at 09:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    IIRC, the omnificier is still a bit faster, he just doesn't have the means to kill Pun-Pun while he's chatting up pazuzu.
    How so? the omniscifier takes 4 levels to do, pun-pun can do all his stuff on level 1. Assuming they both start at level 1 then the omniscifier would take a lot longer to do than pun-pun.
    Last edited by Fostire; 2010-04-18 at 09:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Can't recall, but I believe if you start with a sold spellbook, you can afford the spell service for the whole thing at 1. May be wrong though, I don't remember all the shenanigans for gaining wealth at level 1.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fostire View Post
    How so? the omniscifier takes 4 levels to do, pun-pun can do all his stuff on level 1. Assuming they both start at level 1 then the omniscifier would take a lot longer to do than pun-pun.
    Omniscifier was dreamt up while Pun-Pun was still taking until level 4 or 5.
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    Not going to say anything new, but here is a general informative post for those confused (of which there seems to be a number of people).

    When Pun-Pun was originally created, he took many more levels to achieve his powers than he does now. Over time, it gradually went down as more people found more tricks. Ultimately, it stayed at level 5 for quite a bit of time, a point at which many thought was the earliest it could be done.

    At this point a Pun-pun killing contest was constructed. Obviously, nothing can kill pun-pun in a straight up fight, so there was really only one way to beat him: kill him before he reached full power. The way of measuring this was by level. Assuming everyone levels up relatively equally, the goal was to find and kill pun-pun before level five.

    This is when the omniscifer was made. It knew everything at level four, including where to find and how to kill the kobold that would eventually turn into a sarrukh and achieve infinite power.

    That is the point and origin of the build. Please read this and don't continue asking questions previously answered.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Wasn't another use for the +infinity to skill checks to know how to contact the gods and convince them to make you ascend to divinity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Wasn't another use for the +infinity to skill checks to know how to contact the gods and convince them to make you ascend to divinity?
    Exemplar can substitute any skill for diplomacy, commonly used with jump since you just incease your speed by wildshaping into a cheatah.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Exemplar can substitute any skill for diplomacy, commonly used with jump since you just incease your speed by wildshaping into a cheatah.
    Irrelevant, since Exemplar can't be entered until level 11, and the Omnifiscer happens at level 4.

    Besides, using some reaaaaaally bad logic, the argument could be made that the Omnifiscer can just will himself to godhood. See, he knows everything, including any and all ways to ascend to godhood. If someone, anyone, anywhere, has ever just randomly ascended, then he knows it, and can duplicate it. Given that the Material Plane is infinite, it's highly likely this has occurred at some point, meaning he can do it too.

    NOTE: I've seen the above postulated, but don't buy it personally.
    Last edited by arguskos; 2010-04-18 at 10:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    I love all these builds... this is one of the main reasons I regret switching to 4e. You don't have the insane, hilarious cheese.

    On a related note, does anyone remember the Terminator build?
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    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Irrelevant, since Exemplar can't be entered until level 11, and the Omnifiscer happens at level 4.

    Besides, using some reaaaaaally bad logic, the argument could be made that the Omnifiscer can just will himself to godhood. See, he knows everything, including any and all ways to ascend to godhood. If someone, anyone, anywhere, has ever just randomly ascended, then he knows it, and can duplicate it. Given that the Material Plane is infinite, it's highly likely this has occurred at some point, meaning he can do it too.

    NOTE: I've seen the above postulated, but don't buy it personally.
    It's more along the lines of "I know where to find the god that would be most willing to make me a god/demigod/whatever and exactly how what to do for them to make them willing," or "I found this god while i had +infinity to diplomacy. Win."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moff Chumley View Post
    I love all these builds... this is one of the main reasons I regret switching to 4e. You don't have the insane, hilarious cheese.

    On a related note, does anyone remember the Terminator build?
    No, never saw that one I think. I do remember the Hive, the Psion that combined with two other people, and Gabriel the Undeadanator though. They made me giggle, though I no longer recall the precise builds on any of the above.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    How about the Temporal Wire Coat-Hanger?

    That one was just wrong.

    As was the Assplomancer.

    [edit] Also? The psionic sandwich.

    McPhrenic With Cheese?
    Last edited by Lycanthromancer; 2010-04-18 at 10:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    The Omniscificer could use some sort of Dilletante something or other to get +Infinity on all checks, not just Knowledge, and then Diplomanced gods to do his bidding. He could also just use his omniscience to set in motion a chain of events that would eradicate the Kobold race.
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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    How about the Temporal Wire Coat-Hanger?

    That one was just wrong.
    I spent a significant amount of time at CharOp and remember all of the other builds, but I don't recognize this one. Details please? (I'm pretty sure I can figure out what it's meant to do, but not the method by which it does.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    I spent a significant amount of time at CharOp and remember all of the other builds, but I don't recognize this one. Details please? (I'm pretty sure I can figure out what it's meant to do, but not the method by which it does.)
    I think it did some time travel trick to kill off people before they lived. Or some such. I have a reaaaaaally vague recall of it, but yeah, no details.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    I think it did some time travel trick to kill off people before they lived. Or some such. I have a reaaaaaally vague recall of it, but yeah, no details.
    Yeah, I got that impression from the coat-hanger part, but I don't recall any reliable methods for time travel to the past other than teleport through time and something Tleilaxu_Ghola did for his No-Ship project.
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    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Irrelevant, since Exemplar can't be entered until level 11, and the Omnifiscer happens at level 4.
    Someone asked how a +infinity skill modifier can be used to persuade the gods to make you one of them and I answered.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Someone asked how a +infinity skill modifier can be used to persuade the gods to make you one of them and I answered.
    Ah, well, my point stands anyways. You don't keep the stat bonuses, IIRC, since the effect that generates them wears off.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Exemplar is irrelevant, since Masochism gives a bonus to all skills, including Diplomacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Probably the omnicaster, a completely illegal gestalt build, not just for taking dual-progression PrC's, but for taking two of them per level.
    Technically that's not actually forbidden, only strongly recommended against


    The Omniscificer is the original answer to the question of "what can beat Pun-Pun". At the time, Pun-Pun could be created by level five at the earliest (of course, since then, people have found a way of doing it at level one, rendering the point moot). The Omniscificer can be done by level four, thus it beats Pun-Pun by virtue of getting there first.

    It exploits an infinite damage loop: through a shared item, damage done by you is also done to your henchmen, and vice versa, and the two trigger off each other. This is combined by an effect to not die from negative hit points, and an effect called "masochism" which gives you a bonus to skill checks equal to the damage taken. Since knowledge checks are a free action, you can then make as many knowledge checks as you please within a single round, each getting an infinite bonus. In other words, omniscience.
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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Technically that's not actually forbidden, only strongly recommended against


    The Omniscificer is the original answer to the question of "what can beat Pun-Pun". At the time, Pun-Pun could be created by level five at the earliest (of course, since then, people have found a way of doing it at level one, rendering the point moot). The Omniscificer can be done by level four, thus it beats Pun-Pun by virtue of getting there first.

    It exploits an infinite damage loop: through a shared item, damage done by you is also done to your henchmen, and vice versa, and the two trigger off each other. This is combined by an effect to not die from negative hit points, and an effect called "masochism" which gives you a bonus to skill checks equal to the damage taken. Since knowledge checks are a free action, you can then make as many knowledge checks as you please within a single round, each getting an infinite bonus. In other words, omniscience.
    In short, the Omniscifier.

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    Default Re: Omnifiscier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Technically that's not actually forbidden, only strongly recommended against
    I am so sick of that lie, whoever started it should read the book. The omnicaster is garbage that totally ignores the rules.

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