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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Zen Combat [General]
    You fight using your focus and perception.
    Prerequisites: Wis 13, BAB +1
    Benefits: You may use your Wis mod on melee attack rolls instead of your Str mod. This only benefits weapons capable of benefiting from the Weapon Finesse feat.
    Special: A fighter may select this as a fighter bonus feat

    Tactical Combat [General]
    You fight using tactics and insight.
    Prerequisites: Int 13, BAB +1
    Benefits: You may use your Int mod on melee attack rolls instead of your Str mod. This only benefits weapons capable of benefiting from the Weapon Finesse feat.
    Special: A fighter may select this as a fighter bonus feat

    Precise Strike [General]
    You can weave your attacks to deal more damage.
    Prerequisites: Dex 15, BAB +4, Weapon Finesse
    Benefits: You may use your Dex mod on melee damage rolls instead of your Str mod. This only benefits weapons capable of benefiting from the Weapon Finesse feat.
    Special: A fighter may select this as a fighter bonus feat

    Zen Strike [General]
    You can spot an opponents weak point.
    Prerequisites: Wis 15, BAB +4, Zen Combat
    Benefits: You may use your Wis mod on melee damage rolls instead of your Str mod. This only benefits weapons capable of benefiting from the Weapon Finesse feat.
    Special: A fighter may select this as a fighter bonus feat

    Insightful Strike [General]
    You know exactly where to hit to make it hurt.
    Prerequisites: Int 15, BAB +4, Tactical Combat
    Benefits: You may use your Int mod on melee damage rolls instead of your Str mod. This only benefits weapons capable of benefiting from the Weapon Finesse feat.
    Special: A fighter may select this as a fighter bonus feat


    Weapon Finesse in my games is modelled after this theme as well. I'm always interested in any feats you may have to help support these styles.

    Update Log
    - 4/19 - Added Precise Strike, Zen Strike, and Insightful Strike
    Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-04-19 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    That gives me an idea for a feat as well

    Munchkin
    Benefit: all of your ability scores except one are reduced to three points. You gain immunity to ability damage/drain. All the points from your other ability scores are added to one stat. All attack/skill/saves use this chosen stat.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    That gives me an idea for a feat as well

    Munchkin
    Benefit: all of your ability scores except one are reduced to three points. You gain immunity to ability damage/drain. All the points from your other ability scores are added to one stat. All attack/skill/saves use this chosen stat.
    Ha...that should have gone in the "Ridiculous Feats" thread.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    That's not how zen works.

    A key point of zen is a mind free from distractions. That isn't really possible in a heated melee. Which probably explains why the Zen Archery feat was specifically all about ranged weapons.

    Zen could be used to create some kind of improved sunder. Perhaps have double your Wisdom bonus apply to damage on sunder attempts, provided you spend a full round action on the attempt.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    And someone has little idea about Zen.

    Zen's practice in Japan was adopted by the samurai class precisely because it was useful for the art of swordmanship.

    Nowadays, its mostly known for its connections to archery and motorcycle maintenance.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    As if clerics and druids needed more boosting...

    Is it just me, or do these feats seem to end up benefiting fighters the least?

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    As if clerics and druids needed more boosting...

    Is it just me, or do these feats seem to end up benefiting fighters the least?
    Unfortunately I think you have a point... Sadly in 3.5, clerics are already much better than fighters, and practically everything that can benefit fighters will benefit clerics as well.

    It's a neat idea though! Perhaps if it was made a fighter-only feat this could work? Or more options for fleshing out Wis/Int-using fighters?
    Last edited by The Neoclassic; 2010-04-19 at 08:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    As if clerics and druids needed more boosting...

    Is it just me, or do these feats seem to end up benefiting fighters the least?
    It happens whenever someone tries to make something that deviates from the normal fighter's abilities. In this case, make attack rolls based on mental stats rather than physical stats (Weapon Finesse was made to benefit rangers and rogues, that are already dex-based fighting classes). Most fighters will inverst only on strength, since it's their more useful stat.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    The Wis one was meant to cut down on MAD for a monk, the Int was built for a gish (Transmuter 8/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5) that had a Str score of 10 in one of my older games. I just didn't post them until now. I am working on an entire string of feats for the SAD fighter.

    I've also got feats that add different ability score modifiers to damage instead of strength (Precise Strike [Dex], Insightful Strike [Int], and Zen Strike [Wis]). I'll Post them in the main post, plus an alteration to the initial feats.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Precise Strike seems weak to me, compared to Shadow Blade. Why the limitation on only crit-vulnerable foes?

    For the other two, I'm less worried due to those being standard caster stats and not very great scores for a fighter to boost anyway.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Well, precision damage is negated on creatures immune to critical hits, so all the "Strike" feats are precision based, but i could take that part out if it makes it to weak.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Well its just that at the 'cost' of two feats(or a dip and a feat), you can get the +2d6+dex to damage, and the dex isn't precision based(From ToB). It also doesn't replace strength, meaning that a shadow blade user can still get strength to damage too.

    The other two are really, really rare to find outside of 3+ class levels in non-casting classes, so I think they're ok being weaker than the dex version.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    I've been thinking on these feats and have decided to come up with a set list for each feat. Weapon Finesse has a list that works thematically with the feat, so i would like to do the same with the other two.

    If anyone has suggestions for this list please post them.

    Zen: Most Slashing Weapons (mainly swords), the Kanabo (Greatclub), Yari (Spear or Longspear), Naginata (Glaive), and most monk weapons.

    Tactical: This one i'm having some major trouble, what weapons would be good for this one, so far only the Spiked Chain and Whip are definites.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    I'm not supposed to comment on this but this sort of falsehood grinds my gears.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheYoungKing View Post
    Zen's practice in Japan was adopted by the samurai class precisely because it was useful for the art of swordmanship.
    No it wasn't! It was adopted primarily because the emerging samurai underclass wanted to seperated themselves from the ruling class that wouldn't have let them in on their funerary rites. It was also highly popular with the peasants because it offered low cost funerals.

    Zen is neither free nor la-di-dah and is one of the strictest meditation regimins out there.

    In mechanical terms, it would be being "in the zone" and would probably be well covered by the Combat Form line of feats.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    To all who argue Zen: In the sense of the feats, its the fact you use your meditative training/Mental Focus to strike with a clear mind, letting the weapon kill and you become the tool.

    To the creator of these feats: I planned on Homebrewing a Samurai Class based off WIS, so this is ideal. Thanks! Plus, I'm running a Seelie Court Killoren Druid, which these feats would certainly benefit

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by ~LuckyBoneDice~ View Post
    To all who argue Zen: In the sense of the feats, its the fact you use your meditative training/Mental Focus to strike with a clear mind, letting the weapon kill and you become the tool.
    This is exactly what i had in mind when making the feat

    Quote Originally Posted by ~LuckyBoneDice~ View Post
    To the creator of these feats: I planned on Homebrewing a Samurai Class based off WIS, so this is ideal. Thanks! Plus, I'm running a Seelie Court Killoren Druid, which these feats would certainly benefit
    Glad they can help, let me know how it works out

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    If you really want to limit these to fighter only require fighter levels as a prerequisites like weapon focus line.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I'm not supposed to comment on this but this sort of falsehood grinds my gears.
    And it grinds my gears when someone is wrong. So you're grinding my gears.

    No it wasn't! It was adopted primarily because the emerging samurai underclass wanted to seperated themselves from the ruling class that wouldn't have let them in on their funerary rites. It was also highly popular with the peasants because it offered low cost funerals.
    There were multiple reasons for Zen's adoption, although I think you should remember that Zen Buddhism was NOT the most popular in Japan, for precisely the reasons you mention below. Pure Land Buddhism was far more popular, and approached being the popular religion you are talking about here. Zen practice did not become popular, and was one of many competing schools of Buddhism in Japan.

    Zen is neither free nor la-di-dah and is one of the strictest meditation regimins out there.
    I never said it was "free" or "la-di-dah".

    Still does not change the fact that Zen meditation was viewed as being perfect for the warrior lifestyle of the samurai. They meditated to improve their combat ability.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Japanese samurai would also have meditated as part of Shinto tradition, which had nothing to do with zen (except in so far as Japanese religion was quite syncretic, and blended things together a lot).

    But they didn't meditate because it improved their fighting ability. They meditated because it was part of their religious tradition, just as medieval western knights prayed as part of their religious tradition. Not everything Asian existed for the purpose of improving fighting ability.

    I'm dropping out of this one now though, because it's getting dangerously close to discussing something that is actually a modern religion.

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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    I don't think the rule is modern religion so much as any religion ever...

    Roland closed down a thread because it was a discussion of Greek gods in their literary portrayal and this counted a religion...

    OP: When I first tuned in, I was hoping for something to make it worth keeping Int and Wis as non-dump stats. What you have here is just an emphasis shift. An expensive one.

    As another possibly line, there was a feat published [OGL] by AEG some while ago:

    Something about being smart...
    Prerequisites: BAB +3, Int 13+
    Description: When facing a target with a lower Int score than yours in melee combat, you may add your Int bonus to hit and damage rolls against that target.

    Not ridiculously powerful but darn useful. Might want to up the BAB requirement to taste, but you could spread this basic idea reasonably easily.

    Attacks: Int based and Wis based
    Defence: Int based and Wis based
    Other stuff: Your threatened area counts as Difficult terrain against targets with a lower key stat than you.

    Anyone got any further ideas?
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    The way I see this "Something about being smart" it's that unfortunately seems like the perfect way for high level wizards to ensure that they can touch attack everything they want.

    Am I wrong?

    As for the feats - I guess that they're all right, but limiting their use to certain weapons, or "finesse weapons" doesn't have much sense.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    The way I see this "Something about being smart" it's that unfortunately seems like the perfect way for high level wizards to ensure that they can touch attack everything they want.

    Am I wrong?
    Specifically exclude touch attacks. This is Homebrew after all.
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    The way I see this "Something about being smart" it's that unfortunately seems like the perfect way for high level wizards to ensure that they can touch attack everything they want.
    AEG always focused on martial and especially swashbuckling heroics. Their magic stuff is...less powerful than 3.5 stuff and their policy on games balance was always that the GM is right and "Rule 0 > Official".

    In the book this came from, there was a set of feats that replaced the armour proficiency ones with a defence progression and could be swapped out for them at 1st level. The whole thing had a sort of "urban street rat" thing going...

    You could flip it to use "if your BAB is higher than your enemy's you may add your Int bonus to attack and damage" with no real problem though. That a bit less abusable?
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    Default Re: Wis and Int Based Fighter Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I don't think the rule is modern religion so much as any religion ever...

    Roland closed down a thread because it was a discussion of Greek gods in their literary portrayal and this counted a religion...
    FYI: the Forum Rules states "real world religion." That's where the line is drawn.
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