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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default How many spells are there total in the phb?

    I need the number for a game.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinizak View Post
    I need the number for a game.
    Er..... get counting? I don't think anyone knows that number off the top of their heads.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    1. Copy SRD list linked by previous poster.
    2. Paste into spreadsheet
    3. Delete all "Spells (Letter) lines
    4. See how many rows there are.

    Looks like 608.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Does the SRD have any spells from beyond the PHB or does the PHB have any spells not in the SRD?

    If no, I guess 608 is correct. Should be easy to repeat and double-check the excel-work.

    If yes:
    I'd recommend taking a PHB and just counting, probably marking something every 10/25/50 spells so that you don't have to start all over if you lose your place and to facilitate double-checking.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If no, I guess 608 is correct. Should be easy to repeat and double-check the excel-work.
    I'm pretty sure that there are no exclusive spells, so 608 would be about right.

    So, I'll bite, why do you need to know the exact number?

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    I'm pretty sure that there are no exclusive spells, so 608 would be about right.

    So, I'll bite, why do you need to know the exact number?
    Random selection, likely.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    For a game. There's a man who's found what amounts to the main power station of magic and has begun turning it off to pave the way for the age of science. Every game session a certain number of spells will cease to work (since there are 600 it looks like 6 every game session) So you know that cure light you cast? Yeah he's not quite feeling it.

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    theMycon's Avatar

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    I'm of split minds-

    On one hand, doing this will help balance caster/noncaster at times.

    On the other hand, it could *seriously* PO a player if their favorites get nixed & other players are untouched.

    I'd recommend breaking it into lists- knock 2 spells from the Wiz/Sorc list, 1.5 each from Cleric/Druid (first session kill 2 cleric spells & 1 druid, second session 2 druid spells & 1 cleric, then 2 cleric1 druid... etc. Note that the "cure" overlaps, but you may still wanna fudge the rolls). Pick one randomly from the smaller lists.

    Also, Fudge the rolls away from important ones at the start.
    If it's not obvious, insert a after my post.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    608.

    Just copied the list into Notepad++, used some RegEx Find & Replace to remove the letter headers, and read the line-number of the last line. It's 608.

    EDIT: Apparently some blank lines didn't get caught by my "\r\n\r\n" query. No idea why, it got most of them...
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2010-04-19 at 08:55 PM.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Does this include all items based on said spells? What about clerics? They get their powers from the gods, and the gods tend to get a bit miffed when a mortal starts messing with the ley lines. Can druids still Wildshape? What about bardic songs? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making PC casters work with level 1 spells at 20, but clerics and wizards get hit worst from this. Which isn't bad, just something to be aware of.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Yes, all magic (items included) and I'll be rolling randomly on the scroll list (3 divine-3 arcane/ 1D10 for the spell level) as for abilities, I'll probably leave those for last if they don't make it in time.

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    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    I will also confirm at 608 spells, though I simply used the word count to tell me how many lines are in the document.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by theMycon View Post
    I'm of split minds-

    On one hand, doing this will help balance caster/noncaster at times.

    On the other hand, it could *seriously* PO a player if their favorites get nixed & other players are untouched.

    I'd recommend breaking it into lists- knock 2 spells from the Wiz/Sorc list, 1.5 each from Cleric/Druid (first session kill 2 cleric spells & 1 druid, second session 2 druid spells & 1 cleric, then 2 cleric1 druid... etc. Note that the "cure" overlaps, but you may still wanna fudge the rolls). Pick one randomly from the smaller lists.

    Also, Fudge the rolls away from important ones at the start.
    Sucks for sorcerers much harder than wizards and for wizards much harder than clerics. Clerics and Druids have it easiest, I think, as they have access to their whole list by default. Of course, if it's a long-running game, you may see these characters multiclass into martial classes which is kind of cool if everyone is down with the setting. I assume you'll be running core-only, otherwise those with non-PHB spells are at a significant advantage.

    Sounds like fun. Good luck.

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    Last edited by Irreverent Fool; 2010-04-20 at 01:19 AM.
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    Paulus's Avatar

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    608 eh?

    Makes you wonder how many are in the Compendium, and not mention splat books.
    Think what you want. I can't stop you.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinizak View Post
    Yes, all magic (items included) and I'll be rolling randomly on the scroll list (3 divine-3 arcane/ 1D10 for the spell level) as for abilities, I'll probably leave those for last if they don't make it in time.
    Well, I hate telling you this, but Sorcerers and other casters with a spells known restriction are now unplayable in your campaign. It just isn't worth the risk of losing your spells known permanently to play one. At least a Wizard or a Cleric can recover from it within 24 hours. Sorcerers? They can't recover from it in a timely manner.


    I agree that casting needs a nerf, but this is way too big a nerf.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    Well, I hate telling you this, but Sorcerers and other casters with a spells known restriction are now unplayable in your campaign. It just isn't worth the risk of losing your spells known permanently to play one. At least a Wizard or a Cleric can recover from it within 24 hours. Sorcerers? They can't recover from it in a timely manner.


    I agree that casting needs a nerf, but this is way too big a nerf.
    Agreed, it's a horrible idea that sucks all the fun out of playing any caster.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulus View Post
    608 eh?

    Makes you wonder how many are in the Compendium, and not mention splat books.
    The numbers for Prestige Classes and Feats are equally amazing.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    Agreed, it's a horrible idea that sucks all the fun out of playing any caster.
    thank god for gestalt then eh?

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    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Rather then doing something silly like eliminating spells one by one, just make magic increasingly difficult to cast or it has diminished or wild effects.
    Something akin to the signs from Elder Evils.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinizak View Post
    thank god for gestalt then eh?
    Not really. What if the player was going into Mystic Theuge ? Or another dual casting progression ? They would probably be limited to playing commoners with better skills and a handfull of weapon proficiencies.

    Lets see in core what effect this would have on each classes:

    Barbarian: All his stuff is about hitting things until they break. His extraordinary special abilities will not be removed so he will probably do just fine cleaving through steam engines with his axe.

    Bard: Uh-oh, his songs are Supernatural abilities, so that means that they are magical effects. But they are not actual spells so I guess these would still be effective in an age of science. He should probably record his songs in digital format and give each party member his own MP3 player so that the effect of that Inspire courage will last indefinately (or at least as long as the battery). He will still lose his spells though, and since he has to learn them ahead of time, he will get screwed in that department. So, overall, the bard is not completely hosed by this change.

    Cleric: "Oh God ! Why did your godly might stop working ?" . Yeah, he becomes a fighter with less weapon proficiencies and with turn undead. He could get those feats that burn turn undead for different bonuses, but overall it is not worth playing. In-game clerics will still have about 200 days untill all of their spells go poof, but thinking as a DM, how many NPC clerics are above level 3 ? Yeah, if there are level 20 clerics everywhere then it wont be a problem for healing and stuff for a while, but later everything falls off. And then you go to the church praying to your god while waiting for about one month for that nasty dagger-in-your-pancreas wound to heal naturally. Plus, dont forget about gods becoming pissy because you are messing with their devotees...

    Druid: Oh boy, here we go ! these guys lose their spells. Bummer. All those buffs and nukes and stuff...but then you remember that you keep your Animal Companion, Wildshape and Elemental Wildshape (Huzzah for Extraordinary abilities not being magical !). And guess what ! Elementals dont actually use the spells in the PHB. So they will still be performing optimally in the current conditions ! Plus, I really like that "Age of Science" thing, with the dinosaurs and elementals and sentient plants and all...

    Fighter: No more magical items designed to help even the field between spellcaster for you ! But that is not so messed up now, is it ? Unless he is going up against a druid, he will perform as before (poorer than a barbarian unless he knows exactly what feats to choose. And in core that is an issue).

    Monk: Huzzah ! Monks finally beat Batman ! And they still get all their stuff ! Oh wait, they could lose Empty Body (it works like the etherealness spell which will probably stop working in a short period of time), Abundant Step (mimics Dimension Door), and other class granted abilities will no longer do anything (since they were designed to screw up spells targetting the monks). So, no fix for them here either...being more powerful than a spell-less wizard/sorcerer and subpar than mostly every other class (except for the bard maybe).

    Paladin: Loses Detect Evil at will, paladin spells (they werent actually stellar in this department to begin with), Remove disease X/week. If you wanna screw them any further...remove their special mount (you could tell them that all Conjuration (calling) effects have ceased to work, and that would mean that the paladin wont be able to call his mount back). Not a really big problem as long as the paladin can declare that Panzer Tank his mount (*insert picture of Comissar Fuklaw saying "Drive me closer ! I want to hit them with my sword" while mounted in a Leman Russ here*). Paladins in this format essentially become the new clerics, only with an abissmal capability of HP restoring.

    Ranger: He loses his spells. Although those were nice to have, he wont be crippled by their lack. Still has his bonus feats, animal companion, and other goodies. You just have to come up with an explanation of how he can hide in front of people without any cover and without resorting to magic though (maybe he uses those projector cloaks or something...).

    Rogue: Still can serve you your own tracheea for breakfast with non-magical daggers. Can no longer use Use Magic Device though, unless you convert it into Use Scientific Device. Then he becomes Caporal Sheppard with the Displacer gun or Chell with the Gravity gun.

    Sorcerer: Since when did the commoner get a magical beast (that will eventually talk) as a class ability ? Yeah, that is about it as far as sorceres go. Yeah, they get more weapon proficiencies than a commoner, but without armor proficiencies they are screwed. At least now thay can feel free to take those damn armor proficiency feats and not worry about those ASF's, right ?

    Wizard: As sorcerer, but you get a book too ! Or if you were already playing, you could sell them to a museum and retire to your now non-magical non-magnificent mansion. And you will get more mileage out of your spells before the whole thing goes poof. That is, if you have EVERY spell in your spellbooks (and usually, a wizard will literally have everything, at least in a theoretical discussion on the interwebs).


    So yeah, dunno how your players will take it if they are playing a wizard or sorcerer or cleric or anything really. No more spells, no more magical items...if they were not warned beforehand and if some of them are not in favor of the "bring the age of science" guy's idea of shutting down magic, they could just as well leave the group and play by themselves or something.
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    Agreed, it's a horrible idea that sucks all the fun out of playing any caster.
    I think these comments are missing the point. If I'm reading his post correctly, it is for campaign/story reasons, and not for balance reasons.

    I'm guessing the party's overall goal is to stop the guy switching the spells off...

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Well you should allow the sorcerer to retrain a spell that no longer functions, other then that I think the idea is pretty cool.

    I would have no problem playing a caster in such a campaign sure there is some added danger (your spell simply does not work) but well I can live with that. And my character would have an extra interest in stopping this evil dude who tries to sap my powaaaa


    oh and 600spells and 6 / session means that only after 100 sessions there are no spells anymore... so maybe you only have 60 sessions in which you have worthwhile casts (unlikely but well could happen though more then likely its far more) 60 sessions even if you play every week, thats a year, more then enough time to stop the bbeg
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2010-04-20 at 06:41 AM.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Not really. What if the player was going into Mystic Theuge ? Or another dual casting progression ? They would probably be limited to playing commoners with better skills and a handfull of weapon proficiencies.
    Gestalt doesn't allow theurge classes, RAW.
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    Rather then doing something silly like eliminating spells one by one, just make magic increasingly difficult to cast or it has diminished or wild effects.
    Something akin to the signs from Elder Evils.
    Because if I simply make it tougher then all it does is add an annoyance factor to casting spells. However, if I take away the spell entirely then that gives the players an OH CRUD factor and a time line.

    Balance isn't really an issue here since the fact that certain classes will become useless is a central PLOT POINT.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I think these comments are missing the point. If I'm reading his post correctly, it is for campaign/story reasons, and not for balance reasons.

    I'm guessing the party's overall goal is to stop the guy switching the spells off...
    No, you missed the point. I didn't say it's a bad way to balance casters, I said it's a bad idea because it makes playing a caster unappealing in general. And of course they'll stop the bad guy, but then the quest is over so it doesn't matter.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinizak View Post
    Because if I simply make it tougher then all it does is add an annoyance factor to casting spells. However, if I take away the spell entirely then that gives the players an OH CRUD factor and a time line.

    Balance isn't really an issue here since the fact that certain classes will become useless is a central PLOT POINT.
    And what will those now useless casters do for the number of sessions it takes to restore their spells? Retire to a nice little village while Barbarian, Rogue and Ranger finish the campaign?

    I'm just saying that if I was a player in your campaign and my spells suddenly wouldn't work, I'd just be annoyed and after some time I'd just stop playing that character.
    Last edited by Gorbash; 2010-04-20 at 10:21 AM.
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    Zeful's Avatar

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbash View Post
    I'm just saying that if I was a player in your campaign and my spells suddenly wouldn't work, I'd just be annoyed and after some time I'd just stop playing that character.
    If I were a player in this game, and figured out that someone was turning off spells, I'd start researching my own to have powers for the confrontation.

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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    No, you missed the point. I didn't say it's a bad way to balance casters, I said it's a bad idea because it makes playing a caster unappealing in general. And of course they'll stop the bad guy, but then the quest is over so it doesn't matter.
    To clarify - even though I quoted yourself, it was a general comment rather than a specific reply to you (i.e. in part, a reply to the last sentence of Sinfire Titan's post that you had quoted). Probably misleading, sorry.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How many spells are there total in the phb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    To clarify - even though I quoted yourself, it was a general comment rather than a specific reply to you (i.e. in part, a reply to the last sentence of Sinfire Titan's post that you had quoted). Probably misleading, sorry.
    Ahhh, I see, it's quite alright.

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