Orc Double Axe vs. Greataxe [3.5]

[Scarey Nerd]

OK people, here's the situation: I'm playing a Half-Orc Barbarian, and am trying to decide on the merits between the two titled weapons. I'm perfectly willing to spend the two feats necessary to use an orc double axe (Two Weapon Fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency), but am still not sure if it's worth it. On the one hand, it can do two d8's in a full round action, making it better than a greataxe, but if not done in a full round then its only a d8, therefore worse.

Thoughts?

[Dr.Epic]

I'm perfectly willing to spend the two feats necessary to use an orc double axe (Two Weapon Fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency), but am still not sure if it's worth it.

I thought as a (half)orc you're proficient with it for free?

[Scarey Nerd]

Unfortunately no, neither Half-Orcs OR normal Orcs get the proficiency, even when Dwarves get waraxes and urgroshes and Gnomes get hooked hammers.

Racial prejudice...

[Zach J.]

I think you'll end up doing more damage with a Greataxe and Power Attack than with a Double Axe.

[Scarey Nerd]

I think you'll end up doing more damage with a Greataxe and Power Attack than with a Double Axe.

I will be getting power attack as well as whichever weapon I get, no matter what (We have a running joke related to Great Cleave that I want to fulfil)

[Critical]

None. Get Glaive or Guisarme.

[Scarey Nerd]

None. Get Glaive or Guisarme.

I sincerely hope you were being fecicious, seeing as both of them are worse than a greataxe, AND a double axe

Edit: I guess they DO have reach, but still...

[Zach J.]

I will be getting power attack as well as whichever weapon I get, no matter what (We have a running joke related to Great Cleave that I want to fulfil)

Hmm, well I won't lie. I like the Orc Double Axe a lot. But if you're using it with two-weapon fighting and power attack you're a lot less likely to hit than if you're just using the greataxe with power attack. In the end it's up to you, but if you're solely concerned about damage I'd stick with the greataxe.

[Lyndworm]

I think there's a feat in C. Warrior (or somesuch book) that makes you proficient in any weapon that has a part of your races name in it. Let me see if I can find it...

[Critical]

I sincerely hope you were being fecicious, seeing as both of them are worse than a greataxe, AND a double axe

Edit: I guess they DO have reach, but still...

Worse? Let me prove you wrong. When someone with a Greataxe or Double Axe comes up to you, you get an AoO with a Power Attack...

Do the math.

[HunterOfJello]

I think there's a feat in C. Warrior (or somesuch book) that makes you proficient in any weapon that has a part of your races name in it. Let me see if I can find it...

it's in each of the races books. you'd get proficiency with all weapons that have the word "orc" in them, there are probably a handful.


*edit*

actually now that i look, that's the only Orc weapon i see. there are Orc-only enchantments for weapons however. you'd have access to those.

it seems the racial weapons were implemented after the book orcs appeared in (races of destiny)

[Scarey Nerd]

Worse? Let me prove you wrong. When someone with a Greataxe or Double Axe comes up to you, you get an AoO with a Power Attack...

Do the math.

A fair point, seeing as I'm probably going to get Combat Reflexes

[HunterOfJello]

there's always the long axe


and the Duom doesn't require a feat to use. if your DM will let you use Dragon material then that's your easiest grab

[Lyndworm]

it's in each of the races books. you'd get proficiency with all weapons that have the word "orc" in them, there are probably a handful.


*edit*

actually now that i look, that's the only Orc weapon i see. there are Orc-only enchantments for weapons however. you'd have access to those.

it seems the racial weapons were implemented after the book orcs appeared in (races of destiny)

I want to say that there's another Orc weapon or two somewhere, probably Dragon...

[Claudius Maximus]

That racial proficiency feat will also get you the orc shotput, which is a pretty decent throwing weapon.

Still, I'd go for a reach weapon, or if it must be one of these two, the greataxe.

[Endarire]

A feat for a proficiency is almost never worth it.

A halberd/lance/glaive/polearm is awesome. The reach makes this so worthwhile, and Hood is why. Carry a backup weapon (armor spikes, a gauntlet, and a braid blade or few) to smack foes who get too close.

[Seffbasilisk]

Lucerne Hammer. 2d4 crit x4. Reach Weapon. Pack a dagger, and you have all three damage types represented. Swords are pretty common even if you don't pack one.

[tyckspoon]

Concurring with 'get a reach weapon', but of the two you posted the greataxe is absolutely better. There's quite a few reasons why:
No feat tax just to use it.
No additional stat requirement (TWF, and especially the other TWF feats, require a significant Dex investment that you really don't have much reason to make other than qualifying for TWF.)
No inherent hit penalty.
Better damage scaling.

A single greataxe hit will do d12+ 1.5xStrMod; that's average 6.5 plus.. well, you haven't mentioned your stats, but you're a +Strength race Barbarian, so 18 would be quite reasonable. +6 damage, and you can do it whenever you hit somebody, whether or not you got a chance for a Full Attack. So 12-13 damage per hit, normally.

A single Double Axe attack will do d8+Str; 4.5+4. 8-9 damage, significantly worse on a standard attack. A Full Attack will be at -2/-2, dealing d8+Str/d8+ .5xStr. Advantage over the single Greataxe attack: 2-3 points of damage, for which you had the privilege of paying 2 feats and making yourself dependent on Full Attacks from level.. well, 3, if you're not using Flaws. This is incidentally an amount of damage you could make up with the Greataxe by taking Power Attack, feeding 1 point of BAB into it, and still be attacking with a better bonus than the Double Axe.

[CrimsonTear72]

there's always the long axe


and the Duom doesn't require a feat to use. if your DM will let you use Dragon material then that's your easiest grab

I agree w/ the long axe, it counts as a greataxe for things like weapon focus and you can have the reach you want. And I'm all for seeing Half-/orcs with axes. :)

[Scarey Nerd]

A single greataxe hit will do d12+ 1.5xStrMod; that's average 6.5 plus.. well, you haven't mentioned your stats, but you're a +Strength race Barbarian, so 18 would be quite reasonable. +6 damage, and you can do it whenever you hit somebody, whether or not you got a chance for a Full Attack. So 12-13 damage per hit, normally.

Good point, perhaps it would help to post my stats:

Str 17
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 12

[Pluto]

Almost any reach weapon is better, no question.
And the Greataxe is the better of your two options.

But I would use the Double Axe. Just because it's ridiculous.

[arguskos]

Almost any reach weapon is better, no question.
And the Greataxe is the better of your two options.

But I would use the Double Axe. Just because it's ridiculous.

If we're talking ridiculous weapons, we need to talk Gyrspike.

[Lin Bayaseda]

You know, I always found the double weapons extremely flavorful and cool. But, I could never find a way to make them work, crunch-wise, better, or at least as good as a simple greatsword or greataxe. Too bad... what a waste of fine flavor.

[Pluto]

If we're talking ridiculous weapons, we need to talk Gyrspike.

I can't believe I forgot about the gyrspike!

Now I'm kind of tempted to get a multi-armed 3.0 Exotic Weapons Master to simultaneously wield one of those, a Dire flail, one of those braid-blades and the Giant Antler Stick from Frostburn.

It would be awesome.

[arguskos]

I can't believe I forgot about the gyrspike!

Now I'm kind of tempted to get a multi-armed 3.0 Exotic Weapons Master to simultaneously wield one of those, a Dire flail, one of those braid-blades and the Giant Antler Stick from Frostburn.

It would be awesome.

A Sugliin, a Dire Flail, a Gyrspike, and NI Braid Blades (there's no limit, IIRC). Now, this does require you have six arms, but hey, whatever, right?

BTW, Lin, you just play a TWF character who uses a double weapon. Most are perfectly functional, assuming you use them as two weapons, not like a greatsword.

[Ravens_cry]

You know, I always found the double weapons extremely flavorful and cool. But, I could never find a way to make them work, crunch-wise, better, or at least as good as a simple greatsword or greataxe. Too bad... what a waste of fine flavor.

Remember, you are required to zhooming noises when using a brilliant energy double sword.

[arguskos]

Remember, you are required to zhooming noises when using a brilliant energy double sword.

And to cry as you get dominated by CR 1/3 skeletons.

[Lin Bayaseda]

Remember, you are required to zhooming noises when using a brilliant energy double sword.

This argument just might tip the scales back in the double-weapon's favor. But only just.

[Keld Denar]

You know, I always found the double weapons extremely flavorful and cool. But, I could never find a way to make them work, crunch-wise, better, or at least as good as a simple greatsword or greataxe. Too bad... what a waste of fine flavor.

You rang?

Behold, optimized Urgrosh usage!

The trick is to only use one end of the weapon at a time, as a 2handed weapon. Then, you qualify for Exotic Weapon Master's Flurry of Strikes trick. Nothing says you have to TWF in order to use Flurry of Strikes. Its a free attack at -2 on all your attacks. Combine with Whirling Frenzy and Haste to make 4 attacks at your highest attack bonus. Sure, your iteratives might miss, but your primary 4 attacks are better off than normal iteratives.

[Magnor Criol]

I can't believe I forgot about the gyrspike!

Now I'm kind of tempted to get a multi-armed 3.0 Exotic Weapons Master to simultaneously wield one of those, a Dire flail, one of those braid-blades and the Giant Antler Stick from Frostburn.

It would be awesome.

"I choose option d.) All of the above.".

-E- Note: Oldthread is ooollllllldddd. Just to help prevent necromancy.