Eberron questions

[Geiger Counter]

Okay first where is a good place to start an eberron campaign?

Second I don't really care for the stats of half races, I don't want them to be as numerous and homogeneous as they are. If a player wants to be say a halfelf or a halforc I'll just let him pick and choose which trains from each parent he wants. The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

The whole concept behind the mark of shadow is dumb. the whole point of dragon marks is that they give you an edge in your field that makes it difficult for mundane humanoids to compete. The mark of shadow does not do this for entertainment. Does anyone know a good series of dragon marks that would give an edge in entertainment?

[Deth Muncher]

Okay first where is a good place to start an eberron campaign?

Second I don't really care for the stats of half races, I don't want them to be as numerous and homogeneous as they are. If a player wants to be say a halfelf or a halforc I'll just let him pick and choose which trains from each parent he wants. The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

The whole concept behind the mark of shadow is dumb. the whole point of dragon marks is that they give you an edge in your field that makes it difficult for mundane humanoids to compete. The mark of shadow does not do this for entertainment. Does anyone know a good series of dragon marks that would give an edge in entertainment?

Sharn or Stormreach.

Sharn - Lots of noir-style things can be done, and you can go explore the Lands of Man and Monsters.

Stormreach - Its in Xendrik, and literally runs like the world of Pokemon - dungeons next to places to heal, as the city is littered with ruins.

[Edge]

The whole concept behind the mark of shadow is dumb. the whole point of dragon marks is that they give you an edge in your field that makes it difficult for mundane humanoids to compete. The mark of shadow does not do this for entertainment. Does anyone know a good series of dragon marks that would give an edge in entertainment?

The two Houses with the Mark of Shadow, Phiarlan and Thuranni, do make good use of the Mark. Those entertainment guilds or whatever? Just a front. Phiarlan and Thuranni are shadow brokers and espionage for hire, are often end up working at cross-purposes.

Unless this is for 4e and they changed that for the new setting.

[CockroachTeaParty]

House Phiarlan and Thuranni indeed use their marks power to good effect, as spies, assassins, and shadow agents. The entertainment and artisans guilds are as was previously mentioned, a front.

The 'half-orc' house, Tharashk, is actually made of half-orcs and humans. Half-orcs only have that dragonmark thanks to their human blood; full blooded orcs don't have dragonmarks.

As for the half-elf houses, Medani could be folded into Phiarlan pretty easily, and Lyrandar could be meshed into House Orien easily as well. Of course, in Eberron, half-elves are pretty much their own unique race that mostly breeds among themselves. They're more common than in most settings, and lack the typical wandering, ostracized, lonely, misunderstood element half-elves have in other worlds.

[NeoVid]

The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

This one could be a problem, mainly since half-elves are much more common and influential than pure elves in Eberron. This would basically put half-elves in the position they're in in every other setting, but that might be what you want.

[Amphetryon]

I'm going to throw a vote for Thrane. It's got an obvious quasi-medieval Catholic Rome feel to it that can appeal both to those who like a more historically-grounded feel to their games, and those who are fans of anime (Trinity Blood, anyone?).

[Coidzor]

Second I don't really care for the stats of half races, I don't want them to be as numerous and homogeneous as they are. If a player wants to be say a halfelf or a halforc I'll just let him pick and choose which trains from each parent he wants. The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

Well, other than the fact that drow don't occur on Khorvaire, not really. You'd have to refluff the drow to have them interacting in the game of Houses.

Unless you're going to remove the limit on dragonmarks to Khorvaire.

[MCerberus]

Sharn is a fun location to start from because you can find adventure easily in the city, in the country around it, or have access to transport to a long list of regions.

The influence of the Twelve, among other things, means that a wide variety of patrons (which are a key mechanic/hook as stated by the ECS) can ship off your characters.

From Sharn you can take a train and be fighting the Emerald Claw in a few days, or be clandestinely snuck into the Mournland via airship to do some scavenging and fight Corpse Crabs.

[Geiger Counter]

The Drow they were basically hired to be like what those guys from inglorious bastards were. Assassin/guerilla fighters morale breakers for breland and cyre. The rich guy that was their handler managed to relocate several tribes to Khorvaire during the last war. When they had their first young in Khorvaire they were born with the mark of shadow making them the most recent DMH. I would appreciate anyone that wants to help me flesh this out.

[Inyssius Tor]

The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

It would destroy the cultures of both House Tharashk and House Lyrandar, and dilute the thematic unity of Eberron's elves.

If you don't like Houses Tharashk and Lyrandar (understandable if you really don't like half-breed races, I suppose), that's fine, but personally I quite like the themes and cultural dynamics of those Houses and the way they interact with the other Houses, the other races, and the multifarious governments of Khorvaire.

[Geiger Counter]

It would destroy the cultures of both House Tharashk and House Lyrandar, and dilute the thematic unity of Eberron's elves.

If you don't like Houses Tharashk and Lyrandar (understandable if you really don't like half-breed races, I suppose), that's fine, but personally I quite like the themes and cultural dynamics of those Houses and the way they interact with the other Houses, the other races, and the multifarious governments of Khorvaire.

Can you please explain yourself, I see virtually no difference between either orcs or half orcs having their own house. Also if orc/humans and elf/humans are so common why aren't other potential combinations?

[AslanCross]

Okay first where is a good place to start an eberron campaign?

Sharn: It's got everything.

Stormreach: Close enough to ruins for exploration, has its own levels of intrigue.

Let me just provide the flip side--bad places to start the campaign:
1. The Mournland
2. The Demon Wastes
3. Argonnessen
4. Khyber
5. Communist Riedra

All five have a healthy mix of nasty environments, powerful enemies, and are very, very far from safety.

Unless you want your PCs to die in short order.

Second I don't really care for the stats of half races, I don't want them to be as numerous and homogeneous as they are. If a player wants to be say a halfelf or a halforc I'll just let him pick and choose which trains from each parent he wants. The half orc and half elf houses are instead given to pure orcs and elves respectively and I'm giving the mark of shadow to the drow. Is there anything I need to worry about from doing this?

It's really up to you; you're the DM. The downside here is that the orcs are supposed to be rather rare (especially in their original druidic culture) as opposed to the half-orcs who are more or less integrated into Khorvaire's cosmopolitan society. Elves, on the other hand, are far more common in Eberron than in other settings, and can be seen in either isolated cultures (Aerenal and Valenar) or integrated into human society. As such it's understandable to have a lot of half elves running around.

As for the drow--sure, they fit the bill, but the drow are concentrated on Xen'Drik. They don't like other races and do not want to abandon the home they pried from the giants' hands. You could probably justify them wanting to put up a corporation on Khorvaire, somehow, but of all the elf cultures they're the least likely to leave their homeland.

The whole concept behind the mark of shadow is dumb. the whole point of dragon marks is that they give you an edge in your field that makes it difficult for mundane humanoids to compete. The mark of shadow does not do this for entertainment. Does anyone know a good series of dragon marks that would give an edge in entertainment?

The edge that the Shadow houses have over mundane entertainers is that they're spies, and good ones at that. They have the funding and skill (ie: class levels) to get into deep cover situations and get the info they need, and then get out.

The whole entertainment thing is a front. If you want to hire a bard, he's likely been bought out by Phiarlan already. If you're lucky he's not spying on you. If you're unlucky, he's a high-level dragonmarked Phiarlan agent who studies your mansion's interior as he discusses the contract.

The Dragonmarked Houses are not just "guys with innate powers." They're "guys with innate powers and lots of money." The dragonmarks give an advantage, sure, but if they spot a guy who has potential, even if he doesn't have a dragonmark, it's easy enough for them to buy him out/eliminate him. (It's possible to be a member of a dragonmarked house without blood relations or a dragonmark---that's why they have the Favored in House feat.)

Phiarlan and Thuranni have different specialties, btw--Phiarlan is entertainment, Thuranni is artisanship.

[Inyssius Tor]

Can you please explain yourself, I see virtually no difference between either orcs or half orcs having their own house.

By and large, orcs are xenophobic. They keep to themselves. The only reason the ones in the Shadow Marches interact with outsiders is because their 'marked half-orc relatives are dragging them into the limelight; there's this whole interplay between the old fundamentalist orcs with their ties to the Gatekeepers and the half-orcs and the humans of the Shadow Marches and the rest of Khorvaire, and that whole thing just goes away when the half-orcs do.

Also if orc/humans and elf/humans are so common why aren't other potential combinations?

That's an entirely unrelated question. But I certainly could see any number of human-dwarf hybrids in the Mror Holds and parts of the Eldeen Reaches, the occasional gnome-halfling hybrid in Talenta, or the occasional Innsmouth strain in any coastal area. I can't think of many others that immediately spring to mind, but if you can I'd be interested in talking about those.

[AslanCross]

Also if orc/humans and elf/humans are so common why aren't other potential combinations?

It would be better to ask WOTC and heck, even TSR that question. Half-elves and Half-orcs have been the only common half-breeds for a long time.

I kind of understand why they're not in the PHB, at least--accounting for every single half-breed out there both depletes book space and strains credulity. ("Mommy, my classmate's daddy is an ogre and his mommy is a halfling. Why?") That's why the half-fiend, half-celestial and half-dragon are templates, not races.

If you really want to support other racial combinations, I think the Book of Erotic Fantasy has support for that.

[iamstillwater]

I want a book of erotic fantasy bad.

*ehem*

Back on track: Sharn for starting adventures! :D

[Geiger Counter]

I happen to like how eberron handles half dragons. Sure you can play one, however if a dragon actually meets you they will treat you as an abomination and kill you, which is how I like to handle half races.

[Deth Muncher]

I happen to like how eberron handles half dragons. Sure you can play one, however if a dragon actually meets you they will treat you as an abomination and kill you, which is how I like to handle half races.

I have a player who is one of those elf things that can trade druid stuff for dragonshaping and such. When he first did it, I freaked out and had him abducted. I then changed it to the heads of the city yelling at him for being stupid.

[Random NPC]

I happen to like how eberron handles half dragons. Sure you can play one, however if a dragon actually meets you they will treat you as an abomination and kill you, which is how I like to handle half races.

Except that in Eberron, they are not. The only abominations are half-dragons and that's it.

Half-Elves are perhaps the biggest players in Khorvaire(after humans). They call themselves the Khorovar, the children of Khorvaire. They are no longer a mix of humans and elves. They are a proud race who can claim that they were BORN when the Five Nations were BORN. They only breed among OTHER Half-Elves. They are the movers and shakers of a lot of things. Right now they have the most advanced form of transportation and the means to improve the economy of any nation they might want to favor (controling thunder and rainwater is powerful for agriculture based economy like most in Eberron).

Half-Orcs are the highest form of purity for the Gatekeeper druids. Gatekeepers are there to protect Eberron from hostile alien beings. They are Eco-Druids able to kick ass. Half-Orcs are the latest thing as they are the fusion of Human (the future) and Orc (the past). Their importance is religiously important in the Shadow Marshes.

[Kol Korran]

The Drow they were basically hired to be like what those guys from inglorious bastards were. Assassin/guerilla fighters morale breakers for breland and cyre. The rich guy that was their handler managed to relocate several tribes to Khorvaire during the last war. When they had their first young in Khorvaire they were born with the mark of shadow making them the most recent DMH. I would appreciate anyone that wants to help me flesh this out.

the problem with that is that they don't actually form a dragonmarked house. as have been mentioned, a dragonmark house is far more than just magical tattoos- it's political and economical power and influence, and resources far wider and more powerful than just the common dragonmarked.

you'll be losing the houses of shadow effectively, though you can have Phiarlan and Thuranni just be elven houses who focus on entertainment, information brokering and espionage. however, that would kind of lose the point of changning house anyway, won't it?

why not keep the houses of shadow as they are? so you add two houses for the elven race, so what? that just means more subterfuge amongst them. heck, human have 4 houses (5 if you count Tharashk), the elves are supposed to be quite numerous and influential, let them have 2 more houses.

i'd suggest to live the drow as they are- they have a unique enough culture, that is deeply tied to their continenet, to drive them away from it. but you're the DM, so do as you wish.

hope this helped,
Kol.

(oh, and i think that Grey wall in Droaam is a blast of a place to start a campaign)

[Prime32]

Except that in Eberron, they are not. The only abominations are half-dragons and that's it.

Half-Elves are perhaps the biggest players in Khorvaire(after humans). They call themselves the Khorovar, the children of Khorvaire. They are no longer a mix of humans and elves. They are a proud race who can claim that they were BORN when the Five Nations were BORN. They only breed among OTHER Half-Elves. They are the movers and shakers of a lot of things. Right now they have the most advanced form of transportation and the means to improve the economy of any nation they might want to favor (controling thunder and rainwater is powerful for agriculture based economy like most in Eberron).

Half-Orcs are the highest form of purity for the Gatekeeper druids. Gatekeepers are there to protect Eberron from hostile alien beings. They are Eco-Druids able to kick ass. Half-Orcs are the latest thing as they are the fusion of Human (the future) and Orc (the past). Their importance is religiously important in the Shadow Marshes.

Not only that, but half-elves have been breeding with each other for so long that it is possible to tell the difference between a first-generation half-elf and a member of an established half-elf family (there are differences in stuff like eye colours). They're basically an independent race now.

[Draxar]

The whole concept behind the mark of shadow is dumb. the whole point of dragon marks is that they give you an edge in your field that makes it difficult for mundane humanoids to compete. The mark of shadow does not do this for entertainment. Does anyone know a good series of dragon marks that would give an edge in entertainment?

On top of what everyone else has said about their key focus being spying, I also disagree with your statement here. A lot of the Shadow Mark stuff is good for entertainment, particularly the lower level stuff:


Darkness
Disguise Self
Minor Image
Shadow Conjuration
Blindsight
Shadow Form

Varying levels of it, but every one of the above could be easily used in entertainment to improve a performance.

[Prime32]

On top of what everyone else has said about their key focus being spying, I also disagree with your statement here. A lot of the Shadow Mark stuff is good for entertainment, particularly the lower level stuff:


Darkness
Disguise Self
Minor Image
Shadow Conjuration
Blindsight
Shadow Form

Varying levels of it, but every one of the above could be easily used in entertainment to improve a performance.

Illusion is limited only by the caster's imagination, and can easily create otherwise impossible efects. Think of it as the mago-theatrical equivalent of CG.

Disguise self means that you can have a play about a king and have the actor look like the king. There are plenty of other forms of "entertainment" where it could be used.

Darkness lets you perform night scenes at day.

Shadow conjuration lets you play the part of a wizard who is required to cast spells on stage.

Blindsight could be used... I dunno, if an actor has to do something while his head is covered? Maybe kuroko?

[MCerberus]

I happen to like how eberron handles half dragons. Sure you can play one, however if a dragon actually meets you they will treat you as an abomination and kill you, which is how I like to handle half races.

Half-Dragons aren't really accepted (read: killed on sight) in Eberron. If I remember correctly, the most important half-dragon in the campaign was turned into a lich so she could survive the massive onslaught of murder brought down on her house from both dragons and elves for creating an abomination. The end result: the Mark of Death being wiped clean off the planet and Vol.

If half-dragons are involved, it's really best to keep them away from the more civilized regions, and Vol herself. Who knows what kind of mad science stuff she'd be up to if she found another.

Like the others have said, half-breeds of other varieties are fine and have their own cultures in Eberron. the best way of handling them if you don't want them prominent is to nudge your players away from playing them and minimizing exposure. Hell there are even some airship captains that aren't half-elf.

[TricksyAndFalse]

I happen to like how eberron handles half dragons. Sure you can play one, however if a dragon actually meets you they will treat you as an abomination and kill you, which is how I like to handle half races.

I think that's probably fine in another setting, but Eberron is very cosmopolitan about race. One example is that people don't tend to kill 'monster' races on sight. Goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears live and work alongside everyone else in Sharn, Stormreach, and other cities. Killing a medusa or even a mind flayer on the street is more likely to create a diplomatic incident and land you in very hot water than it is to earn you a reward. The average person is very open minded about race in Eberron, and persecuting half-human races as 'abominations' just doesn't fit the setting.

Dragon feelings toward mixing with other races is an obvious exception.

[Geiger Counter]

I find the whole entertainment guild as a front for spies as ridiculous for several reasons. That sort of thing is tends to be illegal as well as bade for business. If you actually want people to know you are selling information then eventually it will become common knowledge that their organization is a spy network. And most importantly hypothetically if an organization used it's funds from being a spy network to make it the most successful in say the entertainment industry than wouldn't that be true of all other organizations. Basically way aren't all the other DMH spy fronts too if it's so profitable.

On Orcs and Drow, giving a race the the lack of a desire to interact with other creatures is the dumbest trait to give to any D&D race.

[Mongoose87]

I find the whole entertainment guild as a front for spies as ridiculous for several reasons. That sort of thing is tends to be illegal as well as bade for business. If you actually want people to know you are selling information then eventually it will become common knowledge that their organization is a spy network. And most importantly hypothetically if an organization used it's funds from being a spy network to make it the most successful in say the entertainment industry than wouldn't that be true of all other organizations. Basically way aren't all the other DMH spy fronts too if it's so profitable.

Because not all of the Dragonmarks are particularly helpful for spying?

On Orcs and Drow, giving a race the the lack of a desire to interact with other creatures is the dumbest trait to give to any D&D race.

You've never heard of a xenophobic race? I mean, this is a lot easier than the old Drow, who not only didn't particularly care for other races, but slaughtered and enslaved them, too.

[MCerberus]

I find the whole entertainment guild as a front for spies as ridiculous for several reasons. That sort of thing is tends to be illegal as well as bade for business. If you actually want people to know you are selling information then eventually it will become common knowledge that their organization is a spy network. And most importantly hypothetically if an organization used it's funds from being a spy network to make it the most successful in say the entertainment industry than wouldn't that be true of all other organizations. Basically way aren't all the other DMH spy fronts too if it's so profitable.

They are the best at it as well as having an entire culture of spying that goes with the house. People also do business with criminal organizations all the time. You can also safely assume that House Phiarlan agents would go under cover and pose as outsiders (especially non-marked ones). Controlling who your mark knows is a spy is a great ploy to blind them to the ones they don't know.

Sivis also does some of spywork, but that's mostly due to Gnome history being an endless string of backstabs.

Come to think of it, if you're shifting things around, you can give Handling to full-elves and the gnomes Shadow. That would make a potential Abhorrent able to hide himself and a world conquering manipulator with total command of information.

[Greenish]

Hell there are even some airship captains that aren't half-elf.

Are you sure about that? The bit of fluff about Windwright Captain PrC mentions that "the Lesser Mark of Storm is the only consistent means to effectively control an elemental-powered airship or wind galleon". I wouldn't want an expensive piece of equipment, such as an airship, to be piloted with someone with no consistent means of controlling it, even if I wasn't to be traveling onboard.

[AslanCross]

On Orcs and Drow, giving a race the the lack of a desire to interact with other creatures is the dumbest trait to give to any D&D race.

It's pretty clear what effect it has on them---they're not as prolific as the others. I'd rather have orcs as a xenophobic but otherwise well-intentioned culture instead of "ye olde XP grabbe bagges" who serve no other purpose in the setting than to get exterminated by the PCs. They actually saved the world once, and their xenophobia is their way of preserving the druidic secrets that healed the world.

As for the Drow, you have to keep in mind what their history in Eberron is: they were enslaved by the magic-toting giant empire. They don't want to be anyone's slaves anymore, especially now that modern humanoid society is very magic-intensive. I think this makes much more sense than the "chaotic evil but actually lawful evil" drow society in FR.

You were just expressing your distaste at how you don't want to homogenize the half-breeds. By mainstreaming the orcs and drow, you're pretty much doing the same with them.

[Oracle_Hunter]

OK, I'm curious.

If you hate half-or-more of the fluff in Eberron... why are you running an Eberron campaign?