How to play a Tzimisce

[Sydonai]

...in NWOD. Specifically; How would you recreate the vicissitude discipline within the existing system, without using homebrew? I can think of a few ways mechanically, but none of them really fit themetically.

[The Glyphstone]

Import some of the shapeshifting magic from Mage's Life Arcanum, maybe?

[Semidi]

Check the Mekhet: Clan Book; there's a group in there called the Norvegi who can manipulate their own flesh and bone. Other than that, yeah, the life arcanum is going to be your best bet.

[subject42]

I think there's a circus freak / carnie folk bloodline that gives you the ability to manipulate your body, as well.

[Sydonai]

I'll look at a Life-Arcanum Mage and the Mekhet book then.

The thing is, I don't care if its a vampire, as long as I get to play the- transhumanist-with-low-humanity-that-creeps-everyone-out I'll be fine. So, something that can change themselves, change others, and doesn't really need to hang around mortals to much.

[Reluctance]

Are you going for the flesh-warping vampire, or the disturbed mad scientist vampire? Because much of the latter flavor has been rolled into the Ordo Dracul.

The actual Vicissitude discipline, while it's easy enough to port over, probably hasn't been for a reason. Being able to completely and permanently reconfigure other living beings with a level three discipline is grotesquely abusable. Considering that Transubstantiation is a L5 ritual, and that permanently modifying a person is a Life 4/Fate 2 spell with huge penalties, I'm not seeing this as something you can do after having sunk a dot or two into it.

Edit to add: You're not going to get the character you want in the NWoD. Period. Permanently reshaping somebody is a gross violation of whatever morality system a given game may impose. Turning people into Gigeresque conversation pieces will quickly drop you into whatever sort of unplayable amorality a given system inflicts.

[Project_Mayhem]

Edit to add: You're not going to get the character you want in the NWoD. Period. Permanently reshaping somebody is a gross violation of whatever morality system a given game may impose. Turning people into Gigeresque conversation pieces will quickly drop you into whatever sort of unplayable amorality a given system inflicts.

Unless you import the paths as well. Cant remember what the Tzimisce one was. Metamorphosis probably.

[Aron Times]

Unless you import the paths as well. Cant remember what the Tzimisce one was. Metamorphosis probably.

The problem with allowing alternate Morality meters (Paths of Enlightenment) is that they let players get away with being complete monsters. The point of Morality meters is that it is easy but punishing to be evil and difficult but rewarding to be good. Magnificent Bastards in the nWoD have to balance their Morality with their evulness.

[Project_Mayhem]

The problem with allowing alternate Morality meters (Paths of Enlightenment) is that they let players get away with being complete monsters.

My group never had a problem there ...

The point of Morality meters is that it is easy but punishing to be evil and difficult but rewarding to be good. Magnificent Bastards in the nWoD have to balance their Morality with their evulness.

Fair point - depends on what you want from a game I guess

[Semidi]

The problem with allowing alternate Morality meters (Paths of Enlightenment) is that they let players get away with being complete monsters. The point of Morality meters is that it is easy but punishing to be evil and difficult but rewarding to be good. Magnificent Bastards in the nWoD have to balance their Morality with their evulness.

The point of Paths of Enlightenment were for players to explore new and interesting/alien mindsets. A vampire on Metamorphosis, Power and the Inner-Voice, Bones, Night, Typhon Seth, etc. isn't just someone who gets away with being a monster--it's a character that has to work at being something inhuman.

Here nor there but I thought I might defend one of the best parts about oWoD.

Edit: Oh and another bloodline someone mentioned (the carnival freaks) is in Bloodlines: The Legendary.

Another idea I just had is Belial's Brood investments. Have a look at the Sarx investments many of them involve warping one's body (detaching limbs, bending in impossible directions, and affecting someone's undead body.

[Aron Times]

Actually, the different Paths of Enlightenment in Masquerade became the different Morality systems of each type of supernatural:

1. Mortals (including Hunters) - Morality
2. Vampires - Humanity (share with prometheans)
3. Werewolves - Harmony
4. Mages - Wisdom
5. Changelings - Clarity
6. Prometheans - Humanity (shared with vampires)
7. Sin-Eaters - Synergy

Since Morality and Humanity are identical except that the latter cannot be regained for free (mortals can regain Morality by doing good deeds but vampires and prometheans must spend XP to do so), there are effectively five Paths of Enlightenment in the nWoD.

1. Path of Humanity
2. Path of Harmony
3. Path of Wisdom
4. Path of Clarity
5. Path of Synergy

Here's an example of how different alternate Morality systems are. Murder is not a sin against Synergy, but manslaughter is. Basically, if you planned on killing someone, you don't lose Synergy, but if you accidentally kill someone, you do. Similarly, werewolves don't lose Wisdom for murdering humans if it was "justified" (according to their laws), but they do lose Wisdom for murdering a fellow werewolf (werewolf life is inherently more valuable than human life).

[Semidi]

The only one that actually diverges to the extent of let's say, Path of Caine, is Harmony. I'm not very familiar with Geist so I can't comment on that. Usually, the different moralities (Wisdom, Clarity) are just Morality with some extra no-nos and don't allow for radically different philosophies and mindsets.

However, with this, we're talking about vampires, not werewolves or mages. For Vampires, they get pretty much mortal morality with a different name.

The closest nWoD gets to actual paths like in oWoD is Hunter: The Vigil morality, which is awesome.

[Sydonai]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care if this is a vampire or not, I just want a transhumanist capable of "spreading the love".

The character would view himself as a scientist/artist/doctor(in that order) and view humans as filth, he would do anything to "save" someone he cared about from their own humanity and would see nothing wrong with that, as long as he didn't alter them in such a way that they would be unable to live(like fusing their lips together, or collapsing their lungs).

He follows "The Path Of Evolution" basically; do whatever is necessary to improve oneself until you acheive perfection. He is just afraid to alter himself permanently( not that he would admit that) so he practices on others first.

He hates politics(veiwing it as "to human") and would try to distance himself from the spotlight.

As a vampire he would experiment on ghouls, as a werewolf he would negotiate with spirits, as a mage he would create his own "pets". Anything would be good, as long as it has shapeshifting and can force others to shapeshift(when he gets stronger, of course).

[Sydonai]

"The Path Of Evolution" is something he came up with when he was still human, its just his in-universe justification of acting like that.

As a bit of clarification, a human who is "abnormal" or "strange" enough would not count as "human" to him, he views "humanity" as a state of being, something that can be changed.

edit:Yes, he is slightly insane.

[Semidi]

Oh, sorry, I didn't notice that.

Anyway, a Thyrsus would work for that I think. Modify your body and the body of others and start spending permanent willpower to make the spell lasting. He's probably going to be in the wisdom 1-3 range so I'd seriously consider getting mastery as quickly as possible so you could make a Demesne to avoid paradox.

[NeoVid]

"The Path Of Evolution" is something he came up with when he was still human, its just his in-universe justification of acting like that.

If you're keeping it in Vampire, this guy should be a member of the Ordo Dracul.

...And the rest of your group is going to hate me for telling you this, but you should look at the Centimani from Promethean to get ideas for this concept.

Another really freaky one to look at is the Daksha Legacy from the first Legacy book for Mage.

[Sydonai]

Thyrsus, Daksha, .....and Centimani. I'll look at them, if I can find my Promethean and Mage books.

The Ordo Dracul might not be a good idea, but maybe.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I agree that Mage is probably going to be the best way to pull this off - it's got the spells existent already, and you could get away with doing this sort of stuff without completely bottoming out your Wisdom meter, since Mage Morality is more about responsibly using your magic than strict human morals (though it does include a lot of them).

[Sydonai]

If you're keeping it in Vampire, this guy should be a member of the Ordo Dracul.

...And the rest of your group is going to hate me for telling you this, but you should look at the Centimani from Promethean to get ideas for this concept.

Another really freaky one to look at is the Daksha Legacy from the first Legacy book for Mage.

Okay, this is slightly creepy, I was reading Genius: The Transgression the other day and the main Antagonists in that setting are the "Lemurians", although there are distinct differences there are also disturbing similarities.

[G:TT is a free-ware pdf, just look it up and download it]