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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    MONK
    Alignment: Any [Using the same reasoning as presented for Swordsage]
    Hit Dice: d8

    Class Skills:
    The monk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Unarmed Damage|AC Bonus|Speed Bonus|Special|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    1d6
    |
    +0
    |
    +0 ft.
    |Bonus feats, unarmed strike, unarmed style, quick to act +1, discipline focus (weapon focus)|
    6
    |
    4
    |
    1
    |

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    1d6
    |
    +0
    |
    +0 ft.
    |Bonus feats, evasion, AC bonus|
    7
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    1d6
    |
    +0
    |
    +10 ft.
    |Still mind|
    8
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    1d8
    |
    +0
    |
    +10 ft.
    |Ki strike (magic), discipline focus (insightful strike)|
    9
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    1d8
    |
    +1
    |
    +10 ft.
    |Purity of body, quick to act +2, improved unarmed style|
    10
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    1d8
    |
    +1
    |
    +20 ft.
    |Bonus feats|
    11
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    1d8
    |
    +1
    |
    +20 ft.
    |Wholeness of body, sense magic|
    12
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    1d10
    |
    +1
    |
    +20 ft.
    |Discipline focus (defensive stance)|
    13
    |
    7
    |
    3
    |

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    1d10
    |
    +1
    |
    +30 ft.
    |Improved evasion, greater unarmed style|
    14
    |
    7
    |
    4
    |

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    1d10
    |
    +2
    |
    +30 ft.
    |Ki strike (ethical), quick to act +3|
    15
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    1d10
    |
    +2
    |
    +30 ft.
    |Diamond body|
    16
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    2d6
    |
    +2
    |
    +40 ft.
    |Abundant step, discipline focus (insightful strike)|
    17
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    2d6
    |
    +2
    |
    +40 ft.
    |Diamond soul|
    18
    |
    9
    |
    4
    |

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    2d6
    |
    +2
    |
    +40 ft.
    |Unarmed style mastery|
    19
    |
    9
    |
    5
    |

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    2d6
    |
    +3
    |
    +50 ft.
    |Quivering palm (1/day), quick to act +4|
    20
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    2d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +50 ft.
    |Ki strike (adamantine), discipline focus (defensive stance)|
    21
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    2d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +50 ft.
    |Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon|
    22
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    2d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +60 ft.
    |-|
    23
    |
    11
    |
    5
    |

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    2d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +60 ft.
    |Empty body|
    24
    |
    11
    |
    5
    |

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    2d10
    |
    +4
    |
    +60 ft.
    |Perfect self, dual boost (3/day), quick to act +5|
    25
    |
    12
    |
    6
    |[/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the monk.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As a monk, you are proficient with simple weapons, martial melee weapons (including those that can be used as thrown weapons). You are not proficient with any armor or shields—in fact, many of your special powers require unfettered movement. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, you lose your AC bonus, as well as fast movement.

    Bonus Feats: At 1st level, you receive both Improved Grapple and Stunning Fist as bonus feats. At 2nd level, you receive Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows as bonus feats. At 6th level, you gain Improved Disarm and Improved Trip as bonus feats. You do not need to have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats.

    Unarmed Strike: Monks are highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving them considerable advantages when doing so. At 1st level, you gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. Your attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that you may even make unarmed strikes with both hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. You may thus apply your full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all unarmed strikes. You can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on your attack roll. You have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. You also deal more damage with unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on the table: The Monk.

    Unarmed Style: You must select one of two combat styles to pursue: rapid strike or sneak attack. This choice affects a few class features but does not restrict your selection of feats or special abilities in any way.
    If you select the wisdom based rapid strike, you may attack twice as a standard action if you use unarmed attacks, but with a -2 penalty to each attack.
    If you select the intelligence based sneak attack, you can sneak attack (using all the rules as outlined in the Rogue section) for 1d6 additional damage on any unarmed attack that qualifies. This sneak attack stacks with any other sneak attack offered by other classes, but the damage is only applied if done with an unarmed strike, regardless of any other class.
    The benefits of your chosen style apply only when wearing no armor.

    Quick to Act (Ex): You gain a +1 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.

    Discipline Focus (Ex): As a monk, you can focus your training to take advantage of each discipline’s fighting style. Each time you gain the discipline focus ability, select one of the four monk disciplines to which that focus applies. You can select a different discipline each time you gain discipline focus, but you must know at least one martial maneuver from the selected discipline. Even if you select a different discipline at higher levels, your discipline choice for earlier abilities does not change. This focus manifests in the following ways.

    Weapon Focus: At 1st level, you gain the benefit of the Weapon Focus feat for unarmed strikes with the chosen discipline. See the discipline descriptions in Chapter 4.

    Insightful Strikes: At 4th level, you can add your Wisdom or Intelligence modifier (based on your unarmed style selection) as a bonus on damage rolls whenever you execute a strike from the chosen discipline. At 12th level, you can choose a second discipline to which this ability applies.

    Defensive Stance: At 8th level, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws whenever you adopt a stance from the chosen discipline. At 16th level, you can choose a second discipline to which this ability applies. You gain a +2 bonus on Martial Lore checks made regarding a maneuver in a discipline in which you have discipline focus.

    Maneuvers known: A monk begins their career with knowledge of six martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to them are Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.
    Once you know a maneuver, you must ready it before you can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by monks is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. The maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and they do not provoke attacks of opportunity when initiated.
    You learn additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown on Table 1–2. You must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it.
    Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered monk level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one already known. A monk can choose a new maneuver of any level you like, as long as you observe the restriction on the highest level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. For example, upon reaching 10th level, you could trade in a single 1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-level maneuver for a maneuver of 5th level or lower, as long as you meet the prerequisite of the new maneuver. You can swap only a single maneuver at any given level.

    Maneuvers Readied: A monk can ready any four of six maneuvers known at 1st level. As he advances in level and learns more maneuvers, he is able to ready more, but must still choose which maneuvers to ready. He readies his maneuvers by meditating and exercising for 5 minutes. The maneuvers he chooses remain readied until he decides to meditate again and change them. He need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready his maneuvers; any time he spends 5 minutes in meditation, he can change his readied maneuvers.
    A monk begins an encounter with all his readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times he might have already used them since he chose them. When he initiates a maneuver, he expends it for the current encounter, so each of the readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter, unless they are recovered.
    Use a full round action to quickly meditate to recover an expended maneuver. Doing this does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If the meditation is completed, the monk can choose one expended maneuver to refresh. It is now available for use in a subsequent round.

    Stances Known: A monk begins play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to him. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 14th, and 20th level, he can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and they do not have to be readied. All stances known are available at all times, and the monk can change the stance currently in use as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, a monk cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one already known.

    Evasion (Ex): A monk of 2nd level or higher can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If you make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), you instead take no damage. Evasion can be used only if you are not wearing armor. A helpless monk (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    AC Bonus (Ex): A monk is highly trained at dodging blows, and you have a sixth sense that lets you avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored and unencumbered, you add either your Wisdom or Intelligence bonus (if any) to your AC. (As determined by your Unarmed style choice.) In addition, you gain a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose these bonuses when immobilized or helpless; when wearing any armor; when carrying a shield, or a medium or heavy load.

    Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a bonus to your speed, as shown on Table 3–10. A monk in armor (even light armor) or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

    Still Mind (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment, since your meditation and training improve your resistance to mind-affecting attacks.

    Ki Strike (Su): At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Your unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with your monk level. At 10th level, unarmed attacks are also treated as ethical weapons matching your ethical (Law or Chaos) alignment. If you are neutral you may choose each day what your Ki strike will effect, but that choice remains until dawn. At 16th level, your unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

    Purity of Body (Ex): At 5th level, a monk gains control over his body’s immune system. You gain immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases (such as mummy rot and lycanthropy).

    Improved unarmed style:You gain aptitude in your chosen style.
    If you have chosen [i]rapid strike[/] it improves, reducing the hit penalty to -1 per attack.
    If you have chosen sneak attack you gain an additional 1d6 (total of 2d6) damage on a successful sneak attack with an unarmed strike.

    Wholeness of Body (Su): At 7th level you can heal your own wounds. You can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice your current monk level each day, and you can spread this healing out among several uses.

    Sense Magic (Su): Beginning at 7th level, you can spend 10 minutes focusing upon a weapon or suit of armor. If you succeed on a level check (DC 10 + the caster level of the weapon or armor), you can identify the properties of that item, including its enhancement bonus and special abilities. This ability does not reveal the properties of artifacts or legacy weapons, though it does indicate that such items are significantly powerful.

    Improved Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a monk’s evasion ability improves. You still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, but henceforth you take only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Greater unarmed style: You gain aptitude in your chosen style.
    If you have chosen rapid strike it becomes greater, removing the hit penalty completely.
    If you have chosen sneak attack you gain an additional 1d6 (total of 3d6) damage on a successful sneak attack with an unarmed strike.

    Diamond Body (Su): At 11th level, you are in such firm control of your own metabolism that you gain immunity to poisons of all kinds.

    Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, you can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. The caster level for this effect is one-half your monk level (rounded down).

    Diamond Soul (Ex): At 13th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your current monk level + 10. In order to affect you with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds your spell resistance.

    Unarmed style mastery: You gain mastery in your chosen style.
    If you have chosen rapid strike you gain Flurry of Blows, able to make three unarmed strikes at full attack bonus as a standard action.
    If you have chosen sneak attack you gain an additional 1d6 (total of 4d6) damage on a successful sneak attack with an unarmed strike.

    Quivering Palm (Su): Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. He can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and he must announce him intent before making him attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to him monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time.

    Timeless Body (Ex):Upon attaining 17th level, you no longer takes penalties to your ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that you have already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and you still dies of old age when your time is up.

    Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): At 17th level you can speak with any living creature.

    Empty Body (Su): At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. You may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed your monk level.

    Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk has tuned him body with skill and quasi-magical abilities to the point that you become a magical creature. You are forevermore treated as an outsider (an extraplanar creature) rather than as a humanoid for the purpose of spells and magical effects. For instance, charm person does not affect you. Additionally, you gain damage reduction 10/ethical (as determined by your Ki strike (ethical), including the daily choice if you're neutral), which allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, you can still be brought back from the dead as if you were a member of your previous creature type.

    Dual Boost (Ex): When you reach 20th level, you can use two boost maneuvers simultaneously. Whenever you initiate a boost maneuver, you can also initiate any other boost maneuver that you know as a free action. Both boosts you initiate are expended normally. You can use this ability three times per day.
    Last edited by Theodoxus; 2010-04-25 at 02:29 AM.
    Trollbait extraordinaire

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    Isn't this just a Gestalt (dual progression at the same time) of Swordsage and Monk? I believe it is...and that makes it far overpowered. Swordsage is strong enough on its own.

    Ingredients

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    I once wrote a series of alternate class features for the swordsage which were basically monk class features replacing a few of the swordsage ones, i.e. disease immunity instead of discipline focus (x) and so on.

    From looking at this, it seems to be a swordsage which gets everything the monk gets as well. Now, I'd say that this isn't the way to go: the swordsage is already a good class on it's own, just adding more powers isn't something you should just do like that.
    "In dark times, should the stars also go out?"

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    Anyway, that's what the unarmed swordsage is for.

    Darn flood control. Had to wait one second.
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    Other than the saves, nothing the Monk has really matters to the Swordsage, so my opinion is, without those, no, it's not overpowered. Flurry of Blows is an awful choice compared to almost any maneuver, move speed just isn't that important (and is something the Swordsage can do reasonably well anyway), and the rest of the Monk's features are either pointless or come with Unarmed Swordsage anyway. Swordsages are the weakest of the three adepts (though only by a very small margin), so giving them a little bit isn't going to put them over the top.

    But giving a Swordsage 3 good saves is a lot much, IMO.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2010-04-25 at 11:52 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Monk/Swordsage hybrid - too much?

    This is a monk class and it doesn't get Diamond Mind?

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