Is this encounter going to be too powerful?

[TheYoungKing]

So, I'm DMing for a 3 person group. The group includes a Cleric 6/Contemplative 1 (he's basically playing a Cleric-zilla) a Bard 3/Fighter 4 (don't ask) and a Warmage 7.

The encounter I've built up for them includes a number of low level henchmen (lvl 2 Barbarians and Rogues) and a standoff with two casters (a Sorcerer 4/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 4 and a Barbarian 4/DFA 4)

Is this going to be too much for them? They are about on par with WBL, and they've beat things well above their ECL before.....

[sonofzeal]

Er, depends. What sorts of spells is the Mystic Theurge casting? Does the DFA have Entangling Exhalation? And are the henchmen going to be around while they're fighting these two?

[TheYoungKing]

Er, depends. What sorts of spells is the Mystic Theurge casting? Does the DFA have Entangling Exhalation? And are the henchmen going to be around while they're fighting these two?

MT uses buffs on the Cleric side and debuffs and blasting on the Sorcerer side. DFA has the sickening breath effect, but not Entangling Exhilation.

The henchmen can be dispatched earlier or melded into the same encounter, depending on how the PCs play through it.

[awa]

its all about what the theurge does casters can be a big wild card that makes this kind of thing impossible to determine if he goes in greater invisibility, polymorphed with sudden maximized shivering touches prepped he can almost guarantee dropping at least one pc particularly with the low level henchmen their to attack helpless victims.

[sonofzeal]

What specific Cleric pre-buffs and Sorc offensive spells are you planning on using? Magic Vestments + Fireball is going to be very different from, say, Divine Power + Polymorph, or Freedom of Movement + Black Tentacles.

[BobVosh]

Should be fine. If the warmage can kill the MT quickly, the encounter is basically over provided the bard/fighter can tank a little.

[nedz]

Its a bit hard to say.
Ignoring the bag carriers, the PCs have three actions against two.
This should swing it for them, however:
Whats the tactical setup ?
Do the NPCs get to buff up ?
Do the PCs get to buff up ?
How competant are the players ?
It could all go horribly wrong, but there you go.

The fact that you're asking this question might mean that you think its going to be too hard ? You are probably the best judge.

[TheYoungKing]

Cleric Spells Prepared

0: Light, Mending, Resistance, Virtue, Read Magic
1: Doom, Bane, Shield of Faith, Shield of Faith
2: Eagle's Splendor, Silence, Hold Person, Hold Person
3: Magic Vestment, Deeper Darkness, Wind Wall

Sorcerer Spells Known

7 0 Level
-Resistance, Prestidigitation, Touch of Fatigue, Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Message, Ghost Sound
1 level-Mage Armor, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Burning Hands, Disguise Self
2 level-Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Scorching Ray, Spectral Hand
3 level -Vampiric Touch, Blink

One more thing- MT has Southern Magician (convert arcane to divine or divine to arcane, 6/day) and Draconic Vigor (restore HP equal to spell level of arcane spell cast) Very low HP overall, especially for 10 HD

[sonofzeal]

I don't see the MT doing all that much, he'll probably inconvenience one party member and then go down hard. The Barbarian's not getting much synergy from his multiclass, so he'll probably flounder and then go down too. You'd need heavy support from the mooks or a big situational advantage to make this a dangerous fight.

[TheYoungKing]

I intentionally nerfed the MT's spells on worries it would be too powerful. They haven't faced a full caster yet, so I'm not sure how they'll get through it.

Oh, and a Rage bumps up the Save DC for the breath weapon- so it isn't completely terrible. Scales isn't too bad either, the Barb/DFA has a decent AC.

[sonofzeal]

The breath is doing, what, 2d6? That's not going to scare your players. The Barbarian is probably better off just hitting them with something pointy.

[Myou]

I think I'd want to give the theurge some better spells, and take out those barbarian levels. xP

[nedz]

The MT has no Mook Buffs nor any Battlefield Control.
He has a lot of one person targetting spells which He'll never get to use.
He should get 2 or maybe 3 spells off - which is a bit of a waste.
Not much of a threat.

So the Barb breaths to draw them in for a full round of attacks ?

Sound like they will walk this.

[Godskook]

The breath is doing, what, 2d6? That's not going to scare your players. The Barbarian is probably better off just hitting them with something pointy.

Furious Inhalation seemed like a given to me.

[sonofzeal]

To make this a more fun and memorable encounter, here's what I'd do...

- Have the mooks between the MT/DFA and the door.

- Give the MT a readied action to cast Solid Fog when he sees the PCs.

- Have the mooks circle and engage people outside the Fog.

- Have the DFA wade through the fog and use Listen checks to aim his Breath.

- Have the MT take a readied action to zap any PC leaving the fog with some debuff, like Ray of Enfeeblement or somesuch


RESULT: PCs have to engage on unfriendly terms and will struggle to pull off whatever it is they normally do to steamroll encounters. At the same time, the mooks and the DFA have low damage output and the MT isn't likely to kill anyone, so it should be merely "difficult" rather than "lethal". PC victory is nearly certain, but they'll have to work for it, and usually that's just what you want.

[TheYoungKing]

Well, fine. I blame GiTP if I kill my players.

Noticed I bumped the MT up a level in the OP. Decided to go with it anyways and do so for real.

I didn't want an overly optimized foe.... and this party has been rather variable. Beats things over CR, falls flat against things under CR. Hence why I'm unsure on all of this.

So, digging through some things and building something closer to what I would play, rather than what I'd play against:

Sorc List

1 level
-Mage Armor
-Power Word Pain (No saving throws, and if they can tie down the party in Solid Fog....)
-Ray of Enfeeblement
-Burning Hands
-Power Word Fatigue (Much the same)
2 level
-Boiling Blood (second casting sickens target)
-Scorching Ray
-Seeking Ray (Ignores concealment and cover, and + to subsequent attacks with rays, above)
3 level
-Hold Person
-Prickling Torment (Assuming the minions can tie them down.... that is 1d6 damage with every swing)
4-level
-Solid Fog (For the strategy above)

Slots
0: 6
1: 8
2: 7
3: 5
4: 3

Cleric Prepared:

1: Doom, Bane, Doom, Shield of Faith
2: Eagle's Splendor (For the sorc side), Silence, Hold Person, Hold Person
3: Magic Vestment, Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse
4: Pronouncement of Fate

Domain slots

1: Inflict Light Wounds
2: Shatter
3: Contagion
4: Unholy Blight

Barbarian 4/DFA 4 has been changed to Barbarian 2/DFA 6. Now, assuming I take the Solid Fog strategy suggested above, would voidsense be a good idea as the lesser invocation known?

[Runestar]

The mooks are likely little more than glorified difficult terrain (the warmage can't help but toast them all with a single well-placed fireball. Your two npcs appear to be much weaker than their cr would otherwise let on, because classed npcs are already weak for their cr, and you are also deliberately not optimizing their class lvs (a double whammy).

So your theurge is a cr6-7 at best (not much better than a straight sorc8 or cleric7). The barb, maybe cr4-5 (there are dragons of that cr which out-stat him). The mooks' contribution to EL is negligible. So you are looking at ~ EL8 encounter. A tad challenging, but nothing your party can't handle.

For instance, your mystic theurge may have a lot of spells, but there is only so much he can do in the span of a few rounds of combat unless he spends a significant amount of slots prebuffing everyone beforehand. Same for your barb, I recommend replacing the DFA lvs with dragon shaman or something for the aura, if you want to keep the draconic theme.

[TheYoungKing]

Actually, I rather love the idea of the Solid Fog suggested by SonOfZeal. DFA breath weapon occasionally piercing it, Entangling Exhalation wearing them down, Power Words and Seeking Rays hitting them as they fumble with the henchmen and the raging DFA. All while the MT remains outside with a few of the henchmen to guard him, for the rounds after the PCs get out of the Fog.

Assuming the MT spams the Solid Fog, he can cover around 80 feet with it. None of the PCs have Fast Movement, so they're covering 15 feet each round, in addition to time spent bumping in to the henchmen in the fog or getting hit by the blindsense DFA's breath weapon (which can be sickening or slowing)

That typo opened up Solid Fog, and a good encounter idea.

[sonofzeal]

Assuming the MT spams the Solid Fog, he can cover around 80 feet with it. None of the PCs have Fast Movement, so they're covering 15 feet each round, in addition to time spent bumping in to the henchmen in the fog or getting hit by the blindsense DFA's breath weapon (which can be sickening or slowing)

Incorrect - they're covering 5 feet each round. Solid Fog is a nasty mofo.

I wouldn't use Entangling Exhalation on top of that, though. That's just too much, and likely to frustrate people. Voidsense is good, it'll let the DFA play hide and seek all the better and try to wear down the PCs that way.

I'd have the MT focus pretty purely on debuffs, and hope for his allies to carve through everyone. They likely won't, of course, we're talking about a group of highly qualified adventurers here, but we want the PCs to win anyway. For extra fun, I might have him do the whole thing while lounging in a thrown and sipping from a goblet of wine in one hand, and seemingly not even paying much attention to the fight beyond refreshing the Solid Fog if necessary and dropping a debuff on whoever makes it out on his side.

[TheYoungKing]

Will only use Entangling Exhalation if they make it out of the Solid Fog and the DFA is alive. Should lower the frustration.

The MT is a character that has been plaguing the PCs for a while. His character doesn't quite fit that- but hurting them when they can't hurt him back does. Thus far he has burned down the tavern they were staying at, sent an angry mob to their church, and lead a coup in the city they're staying in (masked under the ritualized festival for slaves) He's a zealot, not a decadent.

Thanks, Son of Zeal. And I can always fall back on the DFA burning the building down, which was my original "interesting situation" idea.