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Thread: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
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2010-04-24, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Warlock PrC question
This is a question (or series of questions) about Warlocks and prestige classing from an optimization stand point. At the moment this is hypothetical, but it may turn into a character concept later on.
Anyway, I was looking through some 3.5 books and basically came to the conclusion that there are two decent PrC for warlock; Hellfire Warlock and Enlightened Spirit. Tell me if there's one I'm missing.
Hellfire Warlock: Hellfire blast is nice, the con damage is not so much, but a wand of (lesser) restoration would handle that I guess. Hellfire infusion reads as being pretty sweet: empower, enlarge, widen, or energy substitute for free on charged item cha/day. An immediate action of a hellfire blast looks kind of sweet to.
From what I can tell you only really end up losing one 10 resistance and being forced to choose fire, 1 dr/cold iron, and a bump up to 3 on fast healing for 2 minutes. Not a huge sacrifice from what I can tell. This actually seems to be made for a warlock bump in a pretty sweet manner.
Enlightened Spirit: Gain an extra dice on eldritch blast, very nice. +AC is nice and death ward really can be nice as well.
However, you lost a lot of invocations to gain an eldritch shape (yawn), what is effectively two situational and minor eldritch essences, and a flight that could be gained by normal warlock stuff. You end up losing out on a crap load of other class features and a lot of invocations.
So, the questions.
1) Does hellfire warlock end up playing out well, or does the constitution damage end up screwing you over to much?
2) Is enlightened spirit worth it? Do the trade offs work well, am I missing something?
3) Do they synergize well? I mean, does a warlock 5/enlightened spirit 10/hellfire warlock 3 do as well/better than a warlock 18? Or a W 8/ES 10 or W15/HW 3?
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2010-04-24, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-04-24 at 05:03 PM.
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2010-04-24, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Eldritch Disciple from Complete Mage is amazing, particularly in combination with Ur-Priest (though that's much the fault of the Ur-Priest). Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/Hellfire Warlock 3 is a very solid build. You get Take 10 on UMD (the key Warlock ability), full divine casting, Hellfire+recovering the Con-damage with Naberius from Binder and yeah...that's an awesome Glaivelock.
Overall, Eldritch Disciple rocks even without the nuttiness that is Ur-Priest; divine casting just goes great with Invocations (well, divine casting rocks rather) and Eldritch Disciple has nice abilities. But Ur-Priest/Eldritch Disciple is truly nice.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
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2010-04-24, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
I don't think Enlightened Spirit is really worth it, unless you're exclusively fighting things like Devils. The lack of flexibility really hurts.
Last edited by senrath; 2010-04-24 at 05:04 PM.
Originally Posted by SkyBoundFencer
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2010-04-24, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Mindbender is an awesome dip for warlocks, and one of the few +1 level to spellcasting that warlocks can enter withou jumping through hoops.
Also Eldritch Theurge is not bad, I like Bard 1/ Warlock 5/ eldritch theurge 4/ (Bard prestige class which gives sorcerer-esque casting ) 1/ Eldritch theurge +6 (using it to advance the above class) it makes for good cha synergy.
Also my numbers probably are wrong, since I am working AFB
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2010-04-24, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
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2010-04-24, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
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Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
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2010-04-24, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
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2010-04-24, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-24, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
What do your mental faculties do at the thought of Ur-Priest/Beholder Mage, with the Alternative Source Spell feat to make your Ur-Priest spells count as Arcane, then advancing them both with Ultimate Magus? Just curious.
On-topic, warlocks can qualify for any PrC that needs a caster level, but not spells of a certain level. Acolyte of the Skin, for example...though that's a very bad example. It's pretty easy to get a DM to agree to let such classes advance invocations when they would advance spellcasting too.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2010-04-24 at 08:47 PM.
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2010-04-24, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
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2010-04-24, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
The blood magus is an interesting one. the ability to travel any distance through someone is pretty cool. never actually played one, but they always looked appealing to me
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2010-04-24, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
There are some very interesting ones out there if you're open minded enough. One of the biggest benefits is the fact that unlike full casters, warlocks can afford to experiment with the PrCs that lose caster levels, because the difference in power gradient between levels of invocations is far smaller than the one between spell levels.
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2010-04-24, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Tainted Scholar, while being world-shatteringly broken on other casters, is not nearly as bad (or good) for Warlocks.
Child of Night gives creepy, yet thematically appropriate abilities.
Ruathar is the easiest PrC to qualify for in the game, and provides a stepping stone to other thematically appropriate ones like Sentinel of Bharrai and Swanmay.
Enlightened Fist... meh.
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2010-04-25, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
I was looking through Magic of Incarnum the other day and I noticed their Incarnum Blast (I think). While Hellfire Warlock is great, I'm always interested in other ways to increase my blast, and this didn't seem too bad, although it does require a lot of investment. It's not a PrC, but basically you start as an incarnum race, then dip a level of Incarnate and take the extra essentia feat. The end result being +4d6 on your blast against people opposed to your alignment on any axis. You can't get the Incarnum blast till 12th, but you can get a couple nifty bonuses out of the soulmelds until you have something better to do with your essentia. And of course nothing's stopping you from taking Hellfire Warlock at the same time, and dipping Binder for Naberious too (since strongheart vest don't do it). Then there's the Chausibles of Fell Power, and those gloves from the MiC...
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2010-04-25, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
It's more of an annoyance really. You have to keep track of how your constitution is effecting your maximum HP, and it can make Fort saves dicey. There's a ton of items that heal you right back up, my favorite being Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC).
Overall, if you need to start using Hellfire, you should be killing stuff fast enough that it won't get much of a chance to fight back. It's very akin to the proverbial ubercharger in that way.
No. It's a terrible PrC.You give up all of your best (Greater+Dark) invocations to gain a couple that are the equivalent of least/lesser invocations.
This class does not advance your invocation casting, more over it puts you behind in caster level for abilities that at best produce 10 extra damage on a limited number of creatures.
However, as the requirements aren't difficult to meet, it might be worth dipping if you want the three class abilities available at level one.
Warlock and Hellfire Warlock work great together. So well in fact, that unless you have an RP reason, I suggest all warlocks plan on taking Hellfire Warlock when it becomes available. The free metamagic trigger-like class ability alone is very handy.
Warlock/Enlightened Spirit is not as good as straight warlock. Enlightened Spirit weakens warlock by removing the option to select good invocations and instead grants weaker invocations, and fewer of them.Last edited by Tokiko Mima; 2010-04-25 at 02:57 AM.
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2010-04-25, 04:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Wait, there are hellfire warlocks that aren't binders?
A dip into demonbinder can be useful, though the 1/day limit on demonbinding is a little restrictive. Usefulness really depends if you read "Once per day per class level, you can spend damnation points to invoke the essence of a demon and bind it to your soul" as giving you one use of each demon, or one use of any demon.
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2010-04-25, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-25, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Awesome avatar done by Ravens_Wing
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
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2010-04-25, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-04-25, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
Um, no it would still be 1/day (but it lasts all day). If you want 2/day, take a second lv.
I do love the adaptation that makes it non-evil required instead of just evil.
Fiendbinder + Demonbinder seem like both good flavor together. Trouble is you need SM 4 to enter Fiendbinder.
FiendB summons them and DemonB makes you be them.
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2010-04-25, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Warlock PrC question
All day? It seems like it only lasts a minute.