[3.5] Decent swashbuckler builds

[Ducklord]

I really like the feel of the Swashbuckler class, but in combat it's really hard to be effective with one without any multiclassing. Of course there's the Rogue 3/Swashbuckler X + Daring Outlaw way, that turns them into a good damage dealer, but this tactic relies on having a flanking buddy, which may not always be possible.

What I'm looking for is a way to build a lightly armored character, that uses finessable weapons and can hold his ground in a 1 on 1 fight with an equal level full-plated, greatsword wielding, power attacking fighter/barbarian/whatever. Can it be done?

[Mongoose87]

Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/ Warblade x. Good Int synergy.

[Greenish]

What I'm looking for is a way to build a lightly armored character, that uses finessable weapons and can hold his ground in a 1 on 1 fight with an equal level full-plated, greatsword wielding, power attacking fighter/barbarian/whatever. Can it be done?

It's called Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

[Ducklord]

It's called Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

Was pretty sure someone would write something along this lines sooner or later..

Yes, the ToB brings all styles of fighting closer power-wise, but I was looking for things like actual build suggestions, or at least Feat - Class abilities combos, that make finesse fighting worthwhile.

[Greenish]

Was pretty sure someone would write something along this lines sooner or later..

Yes, the ToB brings all styles of fighting closer power-wise, but I was looking for things like actual build suggestions, or at least Feat - Class abilities combos, that make finesse fighting worthwhile.

Swordsage: Setting Sun counters to keep chargers at bay, Shadow Blade to go with Weapon Finesse (so you'll get Dex to hit and damage), then there was that tactical feat somewhere (in Faerun books, I think) that negated Power Attack. Rapier is the favoured weapon of at least Diamond Mind (might be Shadow Hand too, can't recall).

[GenPol]

Sword Sage, take Weapon Finesse, at least one maneuver from the Shadow Hand Disciple, and then take the Shadow Blade feat, which gives you +Dex to damage. Or are we staying away from Tome of Battle? Because if so, then I probably don't have much else useful to add, so I'll go away now.

Oh, sudden thought. I think somebody had some sort of trick involving Weapon Finessing their natural attacks? I can't remember where saw that, or if it involved the unarmed swordsage variant, but either way it might not be suitable for a swashbuckling character.

Another thought-- I don't know if this would work, but I think you could be a rogue and pump up your feint checks, and then feint people and then use sneak attack on them.\

EDIT: Meh, partially ninja'd

[HailDiscordia]

It takes little while to get into but if you are patient (or starting at a higher level) Swashbuckler/Rogue/Invisible Blade can do pretty well in a fight. I made one to go up against a group of PC's and he tore them apart pretty good.

[deuxhero]

Sneak Attack Fighter 3/swashbuckler x with the daring outlaw feat.

Full BAB and sneak attack progression.

[Human Paragon 3]

A friend of mine us running a warblade (tob) as a duelist, and that's going very well for him. Just take the manuevers that seem "duelist-y". It's really as simple as that.

[Il_Vec]

There are the Improved Feint feats so you can sneak-attack alone. I played a Swash/SneakAttackFighter(UA)/Assassin/Invisible Blade to good use a while back, but that is not what you are looking for. In your case, you'll need a whip, disarm & trip, and free AoOs to go equally against a 2h Brb. And you'll still be screwed against casters.

Edit: That feat that negates Power Attack is Ellusive Target, it's on Complete Warrior.

[Merk]

Human or Strongheart Halfling Factotum 3 / Swashbuckler 3 / Warblade +X with Able Learner (if you care about skills) and perhaps Knowledge Devotion, and Font of Inspiration as you can afford. Prioritize Intelligence and Dexterity and see if you can get a Keen Rapier. You get your int mod to just about everything, and even more when you spend inspiration.

All of your classes have at least 4 + int mod skill points per level and int is your primary stat, so you'll have a good number of skill points (and trapfinding) so you fill the party's skillmonkey role well enough. Able learner gets you all skills as class skills, and you get int mod to all str, dex, or int-based skills. Even without a huge number of ranks, you'll be decent at movement skills and surprisingly good at stealth or mobility skills (you'll be a great tumbler).

You have nearly full BAB, dex mod to attack rolls, and int mod with a point of inspiration, so you shouldn't have too much trouble hitting in combat.

Your damage is okay (1d6 + str mod + int mod), but your critical hit is a beast. You'll have a critical range of 15-20/x2, add your int mod to confirmation rolls, and deal up to six times your int mod when you critical (int mod from swash 3, int mod from a point of inspiration, int mod for flanking or flat-footed, x2 each for crit) in addition to weapon damage.

Depending on your DM and interpretation of the Cunning Strike ability, you might qualify for the Craven feat, so any time you're dealing int mod extra damage for flanking or flat-footed, you also get a sneak attack of say 1d6 + character level. And that character level turns into 2x character level on a crit, since static damage multiplies. Also possible: monk's belt + carmendine monk feat, giving you int mod to AC at the expense of wearing armor (you can wear armor though; mithral armor is ideal)

Another good option (if allowed) is the Keen Intellect feat, which will allow you to replace your wis mod with your int mod on Will saves and most wisdom-related skills.

Warblade 5, 9, and 13 give you bonus feats; good ones here include Iron Will (for your weakest save) and Combat Reflexes (to take advantage of your good dexterity).

At level 20, you have IL 17, so you can swap out a low-level maneuver for a 9th-level maneuver. Iron Heart has a lot of good swashbuckling maneuvers, diamond mind also works well. Tiger claw might be fun if you want to dual-wield keen kukri.

[Draz74]

Yes, the ToB brings all styles of fighting closer power-wise, but I was looking for things like actual build suggestions, or at least Feat - Class abilities combos, that make finesse fighting worthwhile.

If your intent is to make fighting with a rapier and an empty hand more powerful than fighting with a greatsword would be, I think you're out of luck, even with Tome of Battle. There are a couple feats and stuff here and there that reward rapier-and-empty-hand fighting, but their power ranges from "terrible" to "mediocre." The Einhander feat from PHB2 is about the best of the lot.

But at least Tome of Battle can keep a finesse melee fighter from sucking.

[hamishspence]

Factotum (Dungeonscape) is another class that specializes in Int- might go well with Swashbuckler and Warblade.

[*.*.*.*]

But at least Tome of Battle can keep a finesse melee fighter from sucking.

So can daring outlaw

[Mongoose87]

The Einhander feat from PHB2 is about the best of the lot.

That is a pretty underwhelming feat.

[Draz74]

So can daring outlaw

True. I quite like Daring Outlaws. But the OP seems to object to needing a flanking buddy, and Tome of Battle can avoid that need better than a Daring Outlaw can.

(Plus, personally I see no reason not to have Daring Outlaws also use Tome of Battle material. Even if you don't want to dip an Initiator class, there's always a few feats and items that are quite nice to cherry-pick. For one, Snap Kick is kind of feat-intensive, but oh so fun. For another, Island of Blades (stance) is easy to grab and softens the flanking issue very quickly.)

That is a pretty underwhelming feat.

Yes. But it beats taking levels in Duelist.

[Pluto]

This sort of character works best if its primary focus is on demoralization. Fear effects and other debuffs can make a low damage-output one-handed fighter useful despite its weapon choice. Caedrus wrote a nice handbook on how to make this work.

Riposte Scout also works very nicely for this sort of character. A homebrew Swashbuckler/Riposte Scout multiclass feat would be pretty easy and pretty reasonable to use, as well.

I used a Lurk (CPsi) for a swashbucklery duelist-type once. It was surprisingly competent, with a bit of refluffing. (Mental Assault was mostly frustration. Concealing Amorpha was more a set of superhuman reflexes than a protective blob of energy.) But that was a slightly magically-flavored character. And the PHB2 came out since then.

[sambo.]

no one's mentioned Arcane Duellist?

with False Keeness along with the Improved Critical Strike feat, you can start getting criticals on a nat 12 or better.

also note that most of the ADs class features are Su abilities.

[Il_Vec]

If you absolutely don't want to use anything from ToB, I suggest going with Swash/Sneak Attack Fighter/ Invisible Blade with Daring Outlaw. Swash 3/Fighter 3/ Invisblade 5 will get Feint as free action, + Int to damage & CA, +6d6 sneak attack, with full BAB, at ECL 11...
Just never exect to be on the same level of casters.

[Eldariel]

then there was that tactical feat somewhere (in Faerun books, I think) that negated Power Attack.

Complete Warrior, actually. Named Elusive Target.

Also, Warblade and Swordsage both pull one-weapon fighting off well. Diamond Mind is great with Insightful Strikes totally ignoring your other damage sources, for example, and various set bonuses giving you fine To Hit. And yeah, Shadow Blade and counters are fine. Balance in the Sky, Einhander it up, Imp. Disarm to pick stuff in your off-hand, etc.

[Amphetryon]

Elf Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 7/Champion of Correlon Latheron 2/whatever 8.

STR + INT + DEX to damage with an Elven Courtblade for 2-handed finessing.

[ibonet]

If you don't like TOB, I think that Swashbuckler 16/rogue 4 with Daring outlaw feat is the combination that meets flavour, fun, and balance (almost), all in one, versus a pure fighter.

Rogue 4 allows you to take alternate class ability 'Penetrating strike' from Dungeonscape, which allows you to fight critical immune creatures with efficiency (half sneack attack is better than none).

I like better a swashbuckler with sneack attack than add lots of PrC's to pursue bonus for INT, DEX, STR, ... which only causes MAD and little bonusses in comparison with Penterating strike benfits. And the bonuses are still, in most of the cases, precision damage.

We still have the flanking issue. With vexing flanker and Adaptive flanker, I think that you maximize the probability to flank. Add telling Blow and a keen rapier, and youy add easily Critical hits to the SA activation scenarios. Better than only flanking, isn't it?

And at last, add combat expertisse, combat reflexes and karmic strike or robilar's gambit and you can add as many attacks as hits you receive (note that if you are flanking, you can sacrifice the +4 to hit bonus for flanking for +4Ac, and sacrfice again this AC bonus to gain karmic strike/robilar's gambit benefit AT NO AC COST!!!)

In this condition, I think than a dexterous fighter can be as lethal as a pure fighter.